Re: Signs of Deliberate Artifact?


Tom McDonald wrote:
Seanpit wrote:
Tom McDonald wrote:
Matt Silberstein wrote:
On 5 May 2006 14:28:25 -0700, in talk.origins , "Seanpit"
<seanpitnospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> in
<1146864505.695758.192690@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

It is often argued in this forum that the detection of design is
dependent upon some knowledge of the identity, motive, and mechanism of
the designer(s) responsible for a given phenomenon.

Well, how does one determine that a given phenomenon actually shows
signs of artifact? How does one rule out the possibility of a natural
cause? Does the simple demonstration that someone can produce a given
feature mean that this feature, when found somewhere else in a
different setting is evidence of artifact? What if a non-deliberate
process could also produce such a feature? How then would artifact be
detected?

There are whole fields of science devoted to doing this. Have you ever
considered examining what they actually do?

Archaeology would be a good starting point. It depends entirely on the
capacity of humans to determine natural from artificial. Most artifacts
are obvious.

Upon what basis do you determine that a particular artifact is
"obviously" designed? How do you know it isn't obviously natural?

Some, however, are not (e.g. some pebble 'tools'; flakes
and flake scars on rocks due to natural, not human, action;
concentration of ash and burned material in one place that might be
interpreted as a hearth [intentional] or the result of wind, etc.
[natural])

Yes, and how do you tell the difference?

Studying this aspect of archaeology seems to me a way in for such as
Sean and Zoe.

I'm sure. So, explain it to me.

Do you want this spoon-fed to you?

YES!!!!! Is your eyesight bad or something?

Or are you willing to do some actual
investigation on your own?

If the answer is so simple, and you know the answer, just list it here.
Describe your "methodology" for me right here . . .

If the former, no. If the latter, I'll do
some looking around for you.

Do you know the answer or not? Why this stalling and himhawing around?
Come on now. You said you knew the answer to such a simple question.
Where is it?

For one thing, I'll give to you free, the key is context. Fire-cracked
rock is produced by both human activity and by natural activity. The
context in which fire-cracked rock is found is part of the differential
determination.

So, you have to know context before you can determine design? I'm not
interested in things that are clearly "artifacts". What if you found a
car in the middle of the desert. In this context how could you
determine design for the car? How do you know that this context
couldn't produce a car without the need for intelligent input?

Oh, and while most things are clearly artifacts or clearly not
artifacts, there is a gray area where closer examination is needed to
make the determination. That's where I'd focus, were I you.

How do you determine those things that are clearly artifacts? Hmmmm?
I'm most interested in the clear examples.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

.

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