Re: KT boundry event


uraniumcommittee@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
"The examples are not parallel. The trouble with saying that birds are
dinosaurs is that birds are much different from most dinosaurs, whereas
the coelacanth is essentially unchanged. Dinosaurs are extinct as
dinosaurs."
Don't you find "most" to be discordant here? Better eliminate that word too.
No, I added it. If you want to talk about 'typical' dinsoaurs, then the
birdish ones are far from those typical ones.

What the hell is a "typical dinosaur"?

If there is indeed a dividing line with birds on one side and dinosaurs
on the other, no matter where that line is, it's arbitrary and
incremental.
Correct. In this case, however, it is intimately connected with the K/T
event.
You're entirely wrong there. It's only connected with the K/T event in
your mind.
Not according to the authorities.

What authorities? Name the sources, other than the dictionary.

Not in anyone else's mind, or in reality. If there are birds
after the K/T, there are birds before.
I don't see the point. We're talking about when you can be SURE that
you can apply the word 'bird', and that is only AFTER the KT event.

[...] that ancestor lived in the
Cretaceous. Therefore, some bird must have lived in the Cretaceous.
It's not 'safe' to use the word 'bird', then. It's something in
between.

If you are only interested in modern birds, why is it so bloody
important to be "sure" that you only use the word bird about extinct
animals when it's "safe"?

And again, the point John made: there were several bird-like species
that survived the KT event and have descendants in modern times. If
they were not very much like birds at KT, you must assume massive
convergent evolution to make them all very much like birds now. The
best explanation is that they have a common, very-much-birdlike
ancestor before the KT. It's easiest just to call all these "birds".

It adds nothing, but nobody is saying that at all, or anything like it.
Once again you are having problems with nested groups.
No, I am not! WHY DO YOU KEEP SAYING THAT????>?????????

You demonstrate it below by contradicting yourself:

Suppose that whales are the single remaining group of living
Mongerapotiloids, which consisted of numerous mammal groups represented
by chumwukkies (a extinct grazer from New Zealand); farinokes (an
extinct horned rodent-like creature from Lithuania); Rodneydangerfields
(an extinct arboreal creature that got no respect); and Epidondylotes
(an extinct group with 3 teeth and a head shaped like a Porsche).
Suppose that all of this motley group (the Mongerapotiloids) are now
extinct, with the exception (you claim) of whales. In fact, you insist
on calling whales Mongerapotiloids, even though when anyone hears the
term 'Mongerapotiloids' they cannot help but think of
Rodneydangerfields and burst out laughing. You simply turn blue in the
face and bellow:

'Damn it! Whales ARE Rodneydangerfields!" It is no use to point out to
you that all species of Mongerapotiloids went extinct at the end of the
Hillareos era.

"all species of Mongerapotiloids went extinct" together with "whales
are the single remaining group of living Mongerapotiloids" --> does not
make sense.

"when anyone hears the term 'Mongerapotiloids' they cannot help but
think of Rodneydangerfields and burst out laughing" --> "they" seem to
be a bit childish.

"Damn it! Whales ARE Rodneydangerfields!" does not make sense either,
if whales are not descended from Rodneydangerfields.

You, on the other hand, seem to be claiming that Epidondylotes are the
real, "typical" Mongerapotiloids, although it is a motley group, and we
can't call whales Mongerapotiloids if they haven't three teeth and a
Porsche-shaped head.

I'm still curious, do you think mammals existed before the KT boundary
or not?

-- w

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: KT boundry event
    ... "Birds are dinousars." ... "Therefore, dinosaurs are not extinct." ... Dinosaurs and all other large similar animals became extinct. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: KT boundry event
    ... "Birds are dinousars." ... "Therefore, dinosaurs are not extinct." ... Dinosaurs and all other large similar animals became extinct. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: KT boundry event
    ... "Birds are dinousars." ... "Therefore, dinosaurs are not extinct." ... That's nothing like the reasoning I have used. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: KT boundry event
    ... The problem is one of the use of the terms 'birds'and 'dinosaurs' as ... Note that according to the dictionary, only some birds are toothless. ... and it does say that dinosaurs are extinct ... But the word 'coelacanth' was not made up to refer to extinct ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: KT boundry event
    ... "Birds are dinousars." ... "Therefore, dinosaurs are not extinct." ... Latin was used for philosophy and science until the late ...
    (talk.origins)