Re: 2 questions for evolutionists


"snex" <snex@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Grendel wrote:
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Grendel wrote:
"snex" <snex@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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dabuckna@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
1) What's the best evidence you can cite for vertical evolution
(information-enhancing evolution)
How do you know it's true?

bacteria have evolved to metabolise nylon. nylon is a man-made
polymer
that did not exist prior to 1930. the protein to metabolise nylon
(nylonase) and the genome to code for it represents new information
that was not previously there.

Calling that evidence for evolution is not justified.

Evidence against the evolutionary explanation includes:

There are five transposable elements on the pOAD2 plasmid. When
activated,
transposase enzymes coded therein cause genetic recombination.
Externally
imposed stress such as high temperature, exposure to a poison, or
starvation
can activate transposases. The presence of the transposases in such
numbers
on the plasmid suggests that the plasmid is designed to adapt when the
bacterium is under stress.

rest here:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v17/i3/bacteria.asp

nothing on that site contradicts the facts of the case.

1) nylon did not exist before 1930.
2) the bacteria could not originally metabolize nylon.
3) the bacteria can now metabolize nylon through the use of a novel
enzyme.

the appearance of a novel enzyme represents new information that was
not previously there.

It's simply an adaptation. There is no evidence to justify the claim
that
those types of changes could be responsible for turning bacteria into
fish.

what does that mean, "its simply an adaptation?"

is the enzyme new information or isnt it? did the OP ask for new
information or not?

dont move the goalposts.

Is fur length on a cat the result of "new" information? No. It's simply an
adaptation.
Similarly, enzyme production is simply on or off...it's not new. Turing a
light on is not creating "new" electricity, it's just turning "on" what is
there.










2) Can biologists name a single, unambiguous example of the
formation
of a new species by the accumulation of mutations? Can they give
one
reference for any study that has shown duplicated genes acquired
different functions during an experiment or series of experiments?

ensatina salamanders in california form a ring species surrounding
the
great central valley in california. adjacent populations all
interbreed, but those at the ends of the ring do not. by definition,
we
have a separate species if the population does not interbreed with
any
other when the two are in contact. if the members of the ring except
for the two ends were wiped out, the two populations will represent
separate species.

Is that an official example of a new species by mutation?

technically, it would be a new species by mutation + extinction of
intermediates. nonetheless, it is mutation that drives the populations
to have differences from each other.

Talk about goalpost moving!

what you are doing TWICE in your very post. he asked for a new species
by mutation, and thats exactly what it is. the extinction does not
cause the speciation, it merely makes it obvious. the speciation was
already there based on the mutation.

Well he can argue what he wanted with you. But the example you have given
would end up in an evolutionary dead end anyway, so it's hard to see how
that example would help your case for something beyond a salamader.








regarding gene duplications:

We know duplications occur, but the result does not produce the
additional
genetic material required for the type of changes in organisms
evolutionists
believe turned slime into horses.

did you read the cited paper? it answers the OP's question. by posing
further constraints that were not originally requested, you are moving
the goalposts.

The paper does not explain or give evidence for:
massive amounts of genetic material required for single cell to mult-cell
new never seen before genetic material needed for the types of changes
required for say the addition of limbs or a respiratory system

nor is that what the OP requested. he requested a gene duplication
where one of the duplicated genes differentiates from its ancestors,
and that is exactly what i gave.



dont move the goalposts.

Goal posts? No. I am just trying to keep you on track. We are trying talk
specifics and you are giving very vague examples.
And you are starting to snip without marking. here, I will put this back for
you.

What about these?
The paper does not explain or give evidence for:
massive amounts of genetic material required for single cell to mult-cell
new never seen before genetic material needed for the types of changes
required for say the addition of limbs or a respiratory system






.

Relevant Pages

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