Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth


Ye Old One wrote:
On 1 Apr 2006 13:15:31 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:


Ye Old One wrote:
On 24 Mar 2006 15:03:10 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:


Ye Old One wrote:
On 21 Mar 2006 12:50:13 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:



What I have tried to explain is that using the term singularity
(though I know it is widely used) binds people to thinking in the same
terms as a BHS.

OK. It's noted.


So, the BBS singularity had energy flowing into it?

No. The very early universe, during the first few microseconds of the
expansion phase, had energy flowing in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflationary_epoch

If so,
then it didn't contain time and space completely.

Yes it did. Without time and space there is no universe.

Ah. So the energy coming into the system came in immediately AFTER the
expansion began. OK.

Some of it, maybe the vaste majority.

And, per your response below, the energy came from the vacuum of space
itself.

Yes. The rapid expansion, billions of times faster than the speed of
light, produced the energy. Think in terms of a pop bottle, when
opened bubbles suddenly form because the pressure drops. Well, when
space expanded so fast, there were bubbles of pure vacuum formed - far
more pure than anything that could be produced in the univese today.
The collapse or collision of these bubble produced incredible energy,
and of course from enegy you get matter.

I assume (uh-oh!) that the theoretical math and physics behind the
assertion that "bubbles of pure vaccum collapsing produces incredible
energy" is extremely complex. Let me guess that we'd need math
involving quantum mechanics. Aaarrgghh!



To understand that we would need to get into Brane Theory, something
that would be way beyond this group.

If I ever need some light reading before bedtime, I'll pick up a book
on the subject. :-)



We have an expanding space/time. Expanding so fast that in less than a
second the universe went from a size of 10^-26 meters, a hundred
billion times smaller than a proton, to about a hundred million light
years across. An expansion of 10^50 in about 10^-32 seconds.

You'd have to admit that such an expansion, by itself, in such a short
period of time makes the idea of a Supreme Being a little more
legitimate, yes?

No. There is no evidence for a god, if fact there is no evidence for
the need for a god. Science gives us a much better explination.

Oh boy. What's the scientific and purely-natural explanation for how
this expansion greatly exceeding the speed of light? Is this part of
the dynamics of the Big Band theory where conventionally known physics
and chemistry are useless?





we don't have the math and physics to
analyze a Being who is outside of this universe but who can interact
with it at any time.

Such a being cannot exist.

Why do you say such a thing?

Because the universe is contained. Nothing can get in or out, if it
could then it would not be the universe.

Wait just a second! I thought that quantum mechanics allows for matter
and energy just "popping" in and out of existence AFTER the initial Big
Bang expansion. Now, it is asserted otherwise.




If we were to create a new universe in the lab, something that is not
actually beyond the realm of possibility in the future, we would cease
to be able to interact with it as soon as it forms.

I would like (seriously) to read more about this untouchable universe
within a universe. Any books that you can recommend?

If you can handle the maths then "The Nature of Space and Time" by
Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose will lay the foundations.

Thanks.


Noooo. If it was science it could be considered.

I think that such journals don't consider those theories because they
deal with the supernatural as well as the natural, not because the
scientific methodology is flawed.

Noooo. Because if the articles were scientific there would be no
supernatural content come their end. In otherwords, an article that
explained with science something previously deemed supernatural would
be very welcome. An article that tried to explain something using the
supernatural would hardly be scientific.

Ah...because science can only consider that which is definable,
testable, and repeatable. And supernatural events and entities
wouldn't lend themselves to such. So, these journals are simply doing
their job then?

Why (given your beliefs) should the supernatural be less definable,
testable, or repeatable. Your bible claim different, or is this
another example of the errors of the bible.

The supernatural portions of the Bible are not definable, testable, and
repeatable like the naturally-based events because the power to cause
such events rests in supernatural beings (God, angels, demons) who are
self-aware living creatures, not inanimate chemicals.

On the other hand, the Bible does lay out many promises which can be
proved by anyone wishing to seek if the Bible is an accurate depiction
of God. The results tend to be inherently subjective and not the more
objective, cold, hard results of testing of natural processes.

Here's one:

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty
things, which thou knowest not." - Jeremiah 33:3

If you are honestly seeking to know if God exists as described in the
Bible, then He will answer you somehow. Seriously, call out to Him. I
doubt that you'll get back an verbal response; but, you never know.

You might want to read some Biblical accounts first to see how God
interacted with humans throughout the years. The Bible says that God's
character never changes. So, what God wants and how He works with
humans will not have changed.

Make sure that you're in a room by yourself so that there are no
interruptions. You don't have to be on your knees if you don't want.
If it makes you feel more humble or pious, then go ahead. God knows
what's in your heart and what you are thinking.

If you really want to take a leap of faith, then pray this:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Jesus) shall be
saved." - Romans 10:13


--
Bob.

.

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