Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth


Ye Old One wrote:
On 21 Mar 2006 13:48:18 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:


neverbetter wrote:
Jim Spaza kirjoitti:

Mark VandeWettering wrote:
On 2006-03-09, Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ye Old One wrote:
On 6 Feb 2006 17:05:21 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> enriched
this group when s/he wrote:


And of course, if all 1000 die, nobody is around to argue that they are
special.

Decent point. Yet, the number of permutations for the constants of any
universe is far beyond the trillions, right? With only a relative few
allowing life on this planet. And, here we are. Random chance or
design?

Ok, so let's say that the fact that there is life on this planet shows
that the planet is here by design. Can we then conclude that all those
uninhabited planets are there by random chance? If not, why would the
existence of life tell us anything one way or another about whether
it's chance or design?

Maybe, maybe not. If there is an intelligent design to the cosmos,
then we'd have to figure out what was designed and what was left to
chance. We'd have to discern or infer the characteristics of the
Designer in order to figure out what was included and left out of the
design.

Either everything is designed, or nothing. Since there is no evidence
for a designer, an indeed no evidence that one is needed, we can
conclude there isn't one.

Why would this Supreme Being, an intelligent, self-aware,
self-determinant being, subscribe to an all-is-designed or nothing-is
strategy when creating this universe?

And a Supreme Being is needed. If you have ever told someone to NOT do
something immoral and expected them to obey because of the inherent
goodness or lack thereof of that particular action, then you have shown
a need for a Supreme Being. This is so because it is this Supreme
Being who alone can pass down standards of morality which all humanity
has to follow.

If morality is simply a human construct, then any action is permissible
if the majority says so...and the inherent evilness of the action which
you despise is simply a figment of your imagination. Now, because of
your own common sense, you know that some actions just are plain evil,
regardless of what others say. How can that be, if there is no Supreme
Being who has designed this into the universe?



Supposing that there is a Creator, he would presumably have created all
of the universe, including the gazillions of places in which there can
be no life. So it's not clear to me why we should infer anything from
the fact that there is life on some planets (at least one). Clearly the
Creator, if there is one, is just as interested in creating empty
space.

That is a good conclusion.

How many galaxies are there? How many stars are there? How many
planets are there? How many of those planets are completely
inhospitable to life as we know it? How much of the universe consists
of vast stretches of emptiness which doesn't allow life as we know it?
Why should the fact that there is life as we know it on the Earth show
that the universe was designed?

We can conclude that, at a minimum, the planets with life on them were
designed,

We can conclude nothing of the sort as there is no evidence to base
such a daft conclusion on.

No evidence? Boy, are you a tough judge of what is evidence. And a
daft one at that. :-)


given the scarcity of life throughout the universe

Evidence?

When was the last time we found life outside of this planet? If life
was THAT abundant, then we would have seen, heard, sensed, or found
evidence of something by now. The bottom line is that you have zero
evidence, other than inference from subjective statistical chance, that
life exists elsewhere.


and the
nearly infinitestimal chance that life was naturally and spontaneously
created on this planet.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it any less of a lie.

You got that right. That's why so many people are fighting to get an
alternative to Darwinism in the schools. Any alternative. Lies hate
competition. Not that all the aspects of Darwinism are lies; but, the
conclusion that we evolved from a proto-bacteria is.


Why wouldn't it be just as justified in
saying that the universe can't be designed since there can be no life
as we know it on Mercury, Jupiter and any number of other planets, plus
the empty space and all of the stars? Why should we make conclusions
based on the minority of inhabited planets and not the uninhabited
majority?

Ah! You have made the conclusion that, for purposes of this
discussion, life (especially intelligent life) has no more or less
importance than particles of dust on an asteroid somehwere. Well, if
that is your conclusion, then I can see how our existence would not
mean anything in the analysis of whether the universe was designed or
not.

Define "important" in the way you are using it?

Objective value outside of our own minds.




What is more unlikely? That out of the vast number of planets in the
universe there are some planets that allow life, or that all the
billions of planets happen to be placed in such a way that life is not
possible?

Uh, how about this: that this universe was set up to allow life on
only a few planets. It's not that the other planets were placed to
prevent life. It's just that a few planets were placed/allowed
naturally to exist where life is possible.

Planets are not placed or allowed.

All hail the god of random chance and natural process.

Allow me to interject some theology:

"[fools] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and
served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.
Amen." - Romans 1:25


--
Bob.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
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  • Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth
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