Re: Religious scientists

Denis Loubet wrote:
<eroot@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message


(snip)


I might. One thing that makes me a "modern" or "liberal" Christian is
that I believe evidence trumps old documents, so whatever science can
do, let it, as long as informed consent is followed.

Frankly I think you're going about it backwards. Why trust old documents up
until the point where science contradicts them? Why trust the old documents
in the first place?


Actually, I wouldn't say I "trust" them, I require no such certainty as
fundies do; I would say I "enjoy" ancient documents.

(snip)


My own taste in religion being addressable by the scientific method
does not deprive me of my right to it. Somehow I think we are
partially arguing past each other.

We are. I have no idea where this argument about rights came from.


You and Grano Salis imply that one should not be religious. I'm
saying, I can if I want. Not only that, but people who prefer no
religion are not helping themselves by denigrating those who prefer to
practice religion, because evidently the religious meme is strong
enough to survive attempts to weed it out, and in the process, you risk
"enraging the peasants." Phillip ***'s second novel, _The World Jones
Made_, has a near-future society in which, while it is legal to believe
what you want, it is illegal to advertize it as true unless you have
actual evidence. Eventually, they are overthrown by a religious
movement. As a typical science fiction nerd, I would have thought the
original society was great, and its overthrow shocked me, along with
***'s idea that most people _want to be fooled_. Now, seeing the
resurgence of fundamentalism, I really think that's true.

(snip)


I respect your right to be touchy, but it puts
you in a position parallel to blacks who think all whites are the
enemy, even the ones who, frankly, aren't. People are entitled to
opinions derived from suffering, but that doesn't mean they aren't
skewed in some objective sense.

Touchy. Nice trivialization, thank you. But you're wrong. I am not like the
blacks because they could hear white people speaking up for them.
Unfortunately, I don't hear any Christians or Islamists speaking up for me.

I think you mean "Muslims." "Islamist" refers to someone who wants a
theocracy.

It seems quite obvious which way the wind is blowing.

Yes, you are right.


You're part of the problem.

I've generally been part of one problem or another my whole life.

No. Seriously. You are a major part of the problem. You complain about the
fundamentalists, but at the same time you empower them with your numbers.
You pretend to distance yourself from them, but you don't call yourself
something different.

You are right, and it bugs me that they have coopted the term
"Christian" so Christian School, Christian business, and Christian
Environment all are covernames for "fundamentalist."

You claim that science trumps old documents, but I
don't see you ripping the disproved parts out of your bible.


Hey, they still make good reading.

You quietly moan about the fundies, but you won't denounce them

Actually, I do.

because you
know that any attack that's useful against them is useful against you.

Nope. Fundies are different enough in their psychology and whole
approach to life, that all sorts of attacks would apply only to them,
and not to ordinary religionists. To disagree is to abandon all hope
of ever dealing with the Middle East.

And
so the fundies speak for you,

No, they don't.

taking advantage of the respect your numbers
provide, and you do nothing.

So far, the only thing I can do, since I am neither rich nor powerful,
is not vote for fundamentalists.
Well, and complain about them, which is what most atheists are doing
also.

Thus do they remain in power.

You aid my enemy. You are my enemy despite what you might think.

OK, but I think you are shooting yourself in the foot.

(snip)


I'm sorry, I just think that to have someone who thinks faith is wonderful,
be a scientist, is like having the fox guarding the henhouse. Who decides
when religion is inappropriately being applied?

Peer review.

(snip)

--
Denis Loubet
dloubet@xxxxxx
http://www.io.com/~dloubet
http://www.ashenempires.com

Good luck (which, unfortunately, doesn't actually exist)
I guess we need a secular good wish, such as "I am glad when you are
happy"

Eric Root

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