Re: 17 evidence againts evolution


Shane wrote:
On 15 Feb 2006 15:22:12 -0800, unrestrained_hand@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Shane wrote:
On 15 Feb 2006 13:26:41 -0500, Steve Schaffner wrote:

"Pavil Natanovich" <pasha582@xxxxxxxxx> writes:

At some point, some billion years from now, the inputs from outside
combined with the lesser genertion of radioactive energy from inside
will result in a planet more similar to Mars,

Rubbish.

You have an opinion on this?

Although the earth will not shed mass, as both internal and external
energy sources dwindle it WILL cool down. The stars will wink out, one
by one, and the universe grow dark and cold. Is that rubbish?

Not rubbish, just unlikely. The Earth will probably be vaporized when
the sun goes through a red giant phase,

My limited understanding of this phase, is that the mass of the sun
remains the same as it is now, but is spread through a huge volume, so
the average denity is extremely low, particularly 93 million miles
out. Consequently, the earth will be in a cloud of very thin, hot
vapour. I am not sure if this will be hot enough to vapourise the
earth.

All of the astronomers are of the opinion that it will be. I'll take
their word for it.

It seems that the agreement is not quite universal. Surface temps of a
red giant, (I incorrectly wrote 'dwarf' earlier) are below 6,500K, and
our suns current temperature is already below that, so possibly a
lower temperature still, will be encountered in the red giant stage;
some estimates are as low as 3,000K, so the amount of heat experienced
will be low given the low density, estimated at 0.1 kg/m3. Note that
this density only 1/12th that of our current atmosphere at sea level.


I wouldn't think that would melt the mantle, given the low density, but
it couldn't be good for the rainforests...

There actually doesn't seem to be certainty that it will get this far,
or rather that the Earth will be here when it "arrives". If the sun
loses enuf mass first, the Earth's orbit will extend farther out. The
Creatonists do have one point right (not they they take it anywhere
reasonable) - we have a fairly narrow range of temperature for comfort.
I can't imagine it getting below freezing and staying there, and life
continuing. Or conversely, the temp rising 50 degrees centigrade.

References vary as to how far out sun will expand, and whether or not
the earth will be engulfed.

True.

Perhaps "vaporized" is too harsh a word. Perhaps I should have said
that the astronomers agree that *if the sun's expansion reaches the
Earth's orbit, it will be too hot for us here.

See, on another newsgroup my blithering would be lost in the noise.
This is good for me; keeps me on my toes.


before it collapses into a
white dwarf. The universe will grow cold and dark, but the Earth won't
be around.

It may be. If it does, however, humans are unlikely to survive the red
dwarf conditions in the exceedingly unlikely event that they survive
long enough to experience them.

We are talking about a billion years of so down the line. If we have
descendants even 10,000 years from now, I can't imagine that they would
let a little thing like a red giant wipe 'em out. They may have to
move, though...

You are talking of people who may not survive the effects of global
warming, something we have a certain measure of control over. On what
basis do you conclude we can deal with a red giant?

Obviously my optimism assumes a human species not only surviving, but
civilization and technological development continuing (even if in fits
and starts). Moving the population will be a mere engineering feat. I
assume we'll have plenty of warning... Except for FTL drive, all of the
conceivable future technology in something like Larry Niven's Ringworld
books is just an extension of our current technology.

The near dangers are far greater threats to our existence than an old
sun will be. Of course there may be other dangers in the far future.


--
Shane
Kermit

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: 17 evidence againts evolution
    ... Although the earth will not shed mass, ... the sun goes through a red giant phase, ... My limited understanding of this phase, is that the mass of the sun ... All of the astronomers are of the opinion that it will be. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Gas planet found orbiting dying red giant star closer than Earth orbits Sun
    ... It's theorized that the Earth might meet this fate when the ... Sun goes red giant. ... total luminosity of the star increases. ...
    (sci.astro)
  • Re: 17 evidence againts evolution
    ... Although the earth will not shed mass, ... the sun goes through a red giant phase, ... My limited understanding of this phase, is that the mass of the sun ... will be low given the low density, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Earth/moon/sun 5 billion years from now?
    ... One person told me that by that point, the Earth will be tide-locked to the sun and that the moon will have been destroyed (why? ... Even though the Sun still has about another five billion years before it truly runs out of hydrogen fuel and swells into a red giant, the Sun will be far brighter than can be sustained. ...
    (rec.arts.sf.science)
  • Why be a believer?
    ... > SECOND the Universe is incomprehensible in size and by comparison our World ... > Sun, Stars and Planets revolved around the Earth. ... > Acoran [Supreme] ...
    (alt.religion.christian)
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