Re: All Evidence is Subjective...


Radix2 wrote:
jwsheffield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
The fact is from Nero(Tacitus) to Diocletion(Eusebius),
they tortured and murfered Christians, so they did care.


"And this is supposed to have what bearing on whether they would be
interested in investigating the origins of a text claiming that Herod
had murdered infant Jews several generations ago?"

It is obvious that a religion they are trying to wipe out
that writting a tome showing it is untrue might help.
As I said before ," The
people who ran the Roman Empire were no dummies.
May I ask what Empire you have run?"

You used the dodge of answering it with the question.
If you want to know what kind of police state
the Roman Empire was read, Tacitus' "Annals of Rome"

What evidence?

Since you like the argument from silence, I
shall give a greater argument from silence.
Matthew was published in the ancient world
in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic(both Southern and Northern
Egyptian versions), Vetus Latin, and other versions.
Are you telling me no Roman official was as smart
as you and interviewed clans from Bethlehem.

Now you give your evidence.

Jim

Josephus writes about John the Baptist's teachings at great length
(Antiquities, 18.5.2), but tells us very little about Jesus. This is
all that Josephus writes about him:

"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man . . . . For he
was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people
as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the
Greeks. . . . When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the
highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who
had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection
for him. . . . And the tribe of Christians, so called after him, has
still to this day not disappeared (18.3.3)."

Other than Josephus, the only other historian that can tell us much
about the historical Jesus is Tacitus. He writes:

The founder of this sect, Christus, was given the death penalty in
the reign of Tiberius by the procurator, Pontius Pilate; suppressed for
the moment, the detestable superstition broke out again, not only in
Judea where the evil originated, but also in [Rome], where everything
horrible and shameful flows and grows (15.44).

Tacitus and Josephus provide good references to Jesus' crucifixion,
however Tacitus is no help for telling us anything about Jesus.

(info from
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/historical_jesus.html)

That is about all we have at this point. Hardly convincing of the
historical veracity of Jesus' tale, but it does confirm that the
Christians were persecuted, a fact which we all knew anyway. So the
ball is back in your court. What further information do you have that
we may independently check (rather than jsut take your word for it)?

You fail to address my point that since the Christians
were persecuted, why didn't someone interview the
clans from Nazareth and Bethlehem and write a tome
explaining where the body was if He wasn't risen.

As to positive evidence

Lets quote
an author from the 2nd who heard Polycarp in his youth and
Polycarp knew the Apostle John, Irenaeus of Lyons.

"So Matthew ... issued a writting of the gospel...Peter and Paul
were preaching the gospel at Rome...after their decease, Mark, the
disciple
and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writting what Peter



had preached. Then Luke, the follower of Paul, recorded in a book
the gospel as it was preached by him. Finally John, the disciple of the



Lord,
who had also lain on his breast, himself published the Gospel,
while he was residing at Ephesus in Asia."


"Early Christian Fathers", Cyril C. Richardson,

Please quote an ancient author that says
Irenaeus of Lyons circa 180 A. D. is wromg.

Jim

.

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