Re: All Evidence is Subjective...

jwsheffield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
The fact is from Nero(Tacitus) to Diocletion(Eusebius),
they tortured and murfered Christians, so they did care.


"And this is supposed to have what bearing on whether they would be
interested in investigating the origins of a text claiming that Herod
had murdered infant Jews several generations ago?"

It is obvious that a religion they are trying to wipe out
that writting a tome showing it is untrue might help.
As I said before ," The
people who ran the Roman Empire were no dummies.
May I ask what Empire you have run?"

You used the dodge of answering it with the question.
If you want to know what kind of police state
the Roman Empire was read, Tacitus' "Annals of Rome"

What evidence?

Since you like the argument from silence, I
shall give a greater argument from silence.
Matthew was published in the ancient world
in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic(both Southern and Northern
Egyptian versions), Vetus Latin, and other versions.
Are you telling me no Roman official was as smart
as you and interviewed clans from Bethlehem.

Now you give your evidence.

Jim

Josephus writes about John the Baptist's teachings at great length
(Antiquities, 18.5.2), but tells us very little about Jesus. This is
all that Josephus writes about him:

"Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man . . . . For he
was one who wrought surprising feats and was a teacher of such people
as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the
Greeks. . . . When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the
highest standing among us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who
had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection
for him. . . . And the tribe of Christians, so called after him, has
still to this day not disappeared (18.3.3)."

Other than Josephus, the only other historian that can tell us much
about the historical Jesus is Tacitus. He writes:

The founder of this sect, Christus, was given the death penalty in
the reign of Tiberius by the procurator, Pontius Pilate; suppressed for
the moment, the detestable superstition broke out again, not only in
Judea where the evil originated, but also in [Rome], where everything
horrible and shameful flows and grows (15.44).

Tacitus and Josephus provide good references to Jesus' crucifixion,
however Tacitus is no help for telling us anything about Jesus.

(info from
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/james_still/historical_jesus.html)

That is about all we have at this point. Hardly convincing of the
historical veracity of Jesus' tale, but it does confirm that the
Christians were persecuted, a fact which we all knew anyway. So the
ball is back in your court. What further information do you have that
we may independently check (rather than jsut take your word for it)?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Would historians consider that Jesus related to the tumultuous times he lived in?
    ... Antiquities_20.9.1 speaks of James "brother of Jesus ... He was the Messiah [variant, ... the tribe of Christians so called after him, ... quote Josephus, and none of them mention this section despite them being ...
    (soc.history.ancient)
  • Re: All Evidence is Subjective...
    ... they tortured and murfered Christians, ... Tacitus' "Annals of Rome" ... Josephus writes about John the Baptist's teachings at great length ... , but tells us very little about Jesus. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The Jesus Myth.
    ... Perhaps you haven't heard about Flavius Josephus. ... "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call ... the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day." ... Origen in the mid 200s had quoted Antiquities but never this bit which is ...
    (soc.religion.christian)
  • Re: Biblical Archaeology: Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt
    ... Up to that point the Christians saw ... in order to enhance one family's reputation or for religous reasons. ... "Jesus was The Christ", is generally acknowledged to be a later ... Why would Josephus call this Jesus the "annointed one" ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: funny creationsist
    ... >>> Paul met Jesus only through magic thoughts beamed into his head. ... > Josephus mentions Jesus twice. ... > there were Christians around who called Jesus the Christ. ... > before Eusebius quotes it... ...
    (talk.origins)