Re: All Evidence is Subjective...

On 9 Feb 2006 12:54:04 -0800, jwsheffield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:


raven1 wrote:
On 9 Feb 2006 10:43:46 -0800, jwsheffield@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:


raven1 wrote:
On 8 Feb 2006 07:13:34 -0800, roger_pearse@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

and no historical record of such Gospel events as the Slaughter of the Innocents that
would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians.

Argument from silence.

Hardly; simply an observation that the rather outlandish claims made
in the Gospels are completely uncorroborated.
--

"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"


Since you like the argument from silence, I
shall give a greater argument from silence.
Matthew was published in the ancient world
in Aramaic, Greek, Coptic(both Southern and Northern
Egyptian versions), Vetus Latin, and other versions.
Are you telling me no Roman official was as smart
as you and interviewed clans from Bethlehem.

About what?

The
people who ran the Roman Empire were no dummies.
May I ask what Empire you have run?

May I ask where the meticulous record-keepers in the Roman Empire
recorded the Slaughter of the Innocents? Or why you might think the
Romans would bother investigating the origin of any of the Gospels in
the first place?
--

"and no historical record of such Gospel events as the Slaughter of
the Innocents that
would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians."

First, you say, they would have noticed
then you say they didn't care. You contradict yourself.

Only for sufficiently nonsensical values of "contradict".

Let me parse the above for you:

The idea that the Romans would not have noticed the Slaughter of the
Innocents *at the time that it occurred* strains credulity. As is the
idea that such a thing could be perpetrated without provoking a
general (and easily noticed) revolt among the populace.

OTOH, the idea that they would bother to investigate a claim in a
scripture circulating among a fringe religious cult that such a thing
occurred six or more decades earlier (and which somehow escaped their
notice at the time) is so absurd as to be unworthy of serious
consideration.

Where's the contradiction?


The fact is from Nero(Tacitus) to Diocletion(Eusebius),
they tortured and murfered Christians, so they did care.

And this is supposed to have what bearing on whether they would be
interested in investigating the origins of a text claiming that Herod
had murdered infant Jews several generations ago?

Learned people such as Celsus refuted by Origen
and Porphyr of Tyre refuted by Jerome and Methodus
did try but were refuted by learned Christians.

I must admit, I have no idea what this is supposed to refer to. Could
you be more specific?

Weight
of evidence goes to Christianity.

What evidence?
--

"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: All Evidence is Subjective...
    ... would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians. ... Since you like the argument from silence, ... Are you telling me no Roman official was as smart ... would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians." ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: All Evidence is Subjective...
    ... would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians. ... Since you like the argument from silence, ... Are you telling me no Roman official was as smart ... would surely have caught the attention of even secular historians." ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: All Evidence is Subjective...
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    ... Völkerwanderung and Architecture ... or doing some productive work within Roman economy and, as a result, ... remarkable in Völkerwanderungish architecture and construction. ... Historians and definitely has some valid points to consider. ...
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