Re: hippo-Whale transition

After reading McCoy's statement/question on the cow legs and remembering 
quite a few other statements of his, I figured out what his comprehension 
problem is. He still operates under the anthropomorphism of Creationism when 
discussing Evolution. He says things like "what told X to change into Y" 
which of course is not at all the same type of question as "under what 
conditions did X gradually change into Y and how did that change progress". 
He still thinks of a "what" like a Creator even WRT Evolution.

-- 
Regards,
CMSchaum

"mel turner" <mturner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message 
news:dron2f$sm8$1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mccoy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1138743590.638374.286020@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> Actually, I'm not sure if it were Dawkins or not. There were several
>> books that I looked at. The author that I'm talking about states that
>> he was pleased to find that Haeckel made a tree out of evolution and
>> put hippos in an area related to cetacea. Something like that if my
>> memory serves me correctly.
>
> And that's correct, and wasn't what you said Haeckel did.
>
>> But even I'm wrong on that issue I didn't
>> start the thread in order to prove that Dawkins or any evolutionist
>> said something specific regarding what actually transformed.  The issue
>> that I was calling to was how did the transformation take place.
>
> Okay, fair enough, but you were clearly incorrect in claiming that
> this was a "gross error". That particular tree drawing seems to
> have been ahead of his time at least in that one regard.
>
>> Let's take an example that isn't a hippo for instance.
>>
>> Why would a cow loose it's legs.  Did the skin have sensors that said,
>> "we be in water so let's shed the skin."
>
> Cows didn't lose their legs. Nor did early whales. Whales also
> didn't lose their skin.  And the ancestors of whales weren't
> "cows" any more than they were "hippos"
>
> Further, evolution doesn't need any "sensors" in the evolving organs
> to tell the genes what to do. Selection for aquatic adaptations will
> take place as an automatic consequence of some individual variations
> tending to have greater reproductive success than others in their
> population.
>
> No need for any "sensors", just continual selection for better
> swimming ability and so forth. The genes don't need to "know"
> that streamlining helps; it's enough that the more streamlined
> pre-whales happen to catch more fish on the average and happen
> to have more kids than their lumpier neighbors.
>
>>I know most of you will
>> object to my word useage, but help me out here, and explain to me why a
>> cow or any other animal would change from kind to another.
>
> The early steps would likely be a simple change in habits and habitats.
> For example, modern Galapagos marine iguanas still lack any obvious
> aquatic adaptations that would be easily noticed if they were only
> known as fossil skeletons.  Their skeletons aren't yet very different
> from those of terrestrial iguanas.
>
> Similarly, modern minks are semi-aquatic but aren't anatomically very
> different at all from their terrestrial weasel close cousins.  Otters
> on the other hand are in the same family as minks and weasels and
> badgers, but are obviously much more highly aquatic both in habits and
> in structure. They're a nice analogy for an early-to-mid-stage in the
> evolution of an even more aquatic, seal-like animal.
>
> In the case of early whales, a terrestrial ancestor would give rise
> to an amphibious descendant which in turn gave rise to more completely
> aquatic descendants. We now do have nice fossils of these early and
> intermediate stages. Only after whales became completely aquatic did
> they lose their external hind legs.
>
> cheers
>
> 


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: hippo-Whale transition
    ... Most books on evolution ... >>>>Why would a cow loose it's legs. ... Nor did early whales. ... Selection for aquatic adaptations will ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: hippo-Whale transition
    ... I'm not sure if it were Dawkins or not. ... Nor did early whales. ... evolution doesn't need any "sensors" in the evolving organs ... > cow or any other animal would change from kind to another. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: My Ph.D. Dissertation
    ... Did you know that neither Hitler nor Stalin owned a cow? ... that happens to be THE journal for your little area of science). ... "Evolution is purely a religion" ... According to the scientists who actually study the subject, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: hippo-Whale transition
    ... Nor did early whales. ... "Selection for aquatic adaptations", what do you mean by that? ... The cow selects a whale for swimming ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What do you guys think
    ... a cow still has four legs. ... and spelling lessons in this subthread are just lagnaippe. ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)