Re: Open invitation to IDers - What argument would you use to justify ID should be taught in science classes.

In message <1138418533.214021.79580@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"explainer" <gordon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
> Stuart wrote:
> > explainer wrote:
[SNIP]

> > > > > Great question. Please note the key word, believe, which
> > > > > means, in this context, I think there are things beyond our
> > > > > knowledge, but can't prove it. One thing I would offer is
> > > > > the understanding of altruism, love and compassion.
> > > >
> > > > Not good examples. Altruism in particular is a pretty well
> > > > understood phenomenon with an evolutionary basis.
> > > I have missed this. Do you have a good reference?
> > >
> >
> > You can start with this:
> > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/06/2/l_062_03.html
> >
> > ESS is derived from Game theory.
>
> Thanks Stuart,

I'll second those thanks - you saved me the trouble!

> I have read the link and a few more about ESS. I see the potential
> link to altruism, but think it is a stretch since I found no direct
> reference to altruism which I see as the conceern for another's well
> being.

You need to separate the concept of consciousness (concern for
another's well being) and the physical expression of such concern. If a
living creature (ant, bird, human) acts against his/her immediate
self-interest in order to help another living creature, that has all
the physical attributes of altruism.

Humankind is uniquely able to elevate that physical act to some kind of
higher spiritual or moral plane, but in many cases this is little more
than a post hoc rationalisation of the (mis?)triggering of behaviour
that was the result of kin selection.

> This leaves love and compassion of what I think of as the big
> three in siprituality.
>
> Given time and intellectual capacity I may break through this wall,
> but for now am unable to rationalize any of what I view as the
> spiritual.

Dawkins has argued in "The Extended Phenotype" (IIRC) that behaviour
such as love and compassion can be the result of selection (in
particular, love of offspring is an obvious contender for selection).


--
Nick Roberts tigger @ orpheusinternet.co.uk

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