Re: Speculative Design Hypothesis (with predictions)

wf3h@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 20:12:57 GMT, Wall Of Sleep <Sabotage@xxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Timberwoof wrote:
>>
>>>In article <17dyf.6990$US3.4700@trnddc04>, Wall Of Sleep <Sabotage@xxxxxxxx>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>wf3h@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>except, of course, kow evolution happens TODAY as does speciation. it
>>>>>hasn't stopped. so beyond your mere assertion, you have no proof.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I never said evolution doesn't happen. I said it's incapable of building
>>>>complex functions.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hm. It seems to me that it has.
>>>
>>>Interestingly, evolutionary algorithms have demonstrated exactly what you said
>>>is not possible. That is, computer programs that encode lists of
>>>characteristics, recombine such lists and add some random variability, and from
>>>each generation choose the best ("fittest") results for reuse in the next
>>>generation. They have come up with some remarkably complex and elegant solutions
>>>to the desired results.
>>>
>>
>>And what are the parameters for "the fittest"? Is there some "goal" that
>>these algorithms have in mind?
>>Algorithms are not nature. Intelligently designed algorithms can be made
>>to produce any results the designer wants.
>
>
> intelligence implies laws of nature
>
> what laws of nature does god obey?
>

What "god"?

>
>>>Fossils provide overwhelming evidence for stages of development, as does the
>>>similarity of embryonic forms.
>>>
>>
>>Only if it is *assumed* that life descended from a common ancestor.
>
>
> funny that this conclusion was present over 2000 years ago. it's not a
> new idea.
>

So? So was the flat earth idea.

>
>>Interestingly enough, these "stages", as you call them, are still in
>>existence today. We still have single celled life, flightless birds,
>>light sensitive spots, the works. Nothing has changed. The fossil record
>>bears *this* out as well.
>>So how do you *know* the eye "developed" from a spot? How do you *know*
>>the ear developed from a "non-ear"? How do you *know* any of this?
>
>
> uh, because you see intermediate forms in the fossil record...
>

Again, these only look like "intermediate forms" if you *assume* one
evolved from the other. These "intermediate forms" still exist today
though - don't they?


>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>how does creationism produce them?
>>>>>
>>>>>it doesn't. it simply has no mechanism
>>>>>t
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I've already proposed a mechanism. A genetic programmer.
>>>
>>>
>>>But there's no evidence for Him.
>>>
>>
>>There is ample evidence. Just as you look at life and see "stages", I
>>look at it and see the work of design. It's the same evidence, just
>>looked at from a different perspective.
>
>
> a genetic programmer
>
> does anyone know what that means? how does he PROGRAM the genes?
> magic? voodoo? wishful thinking?
>
> that's not a mechanism. if you were a scientist you'd know that.
>

The genetic programmer I was referring to was not only the *individual*,
but the *device* used as well. I said specifically that it could be
similar to our devices which arrange information magnetically to create
animated life such as King Kong. Why is it so hard to believe that a
more advanced intelligence would have such a device at their disposal?


>
>>>Evolutionary theory provides a framework that makes it highly plausible that it
>>>happened. It is a very good theory and compellingly explains all these features.
>>>ID is not *better* at explaining the evidence.
>>>
>>
>>On the contrary - the only "hole" in ID is who the designer is.
>>Evolutionary theory is full of holes.
>>
>
>
> that's kind of true. evolution, like all scientific theories, has lots
> of holes.
>
> creationism has just one: it doesn't work.
>

Well, you just did it. You "created" something. What "doesn't work"
about it?

>
>>>So tell me ... what technology did the Intelligent Designer use to do His work?
>>>Besides things you can't explain, how do we recognize His work?
>>>
>>
>>The existence of a genetic programming language from which anyone with
>>the means can arrange four "symbols" and construct *ALL* the complex
>>systems of life.
>>
>>The fact that these systems are all intertwined with one another in a
>>mutually beneficial cycle of life and death.
>>
>>The fact that the earth where all this happened has 128 parameters
>>governing it's environment that *must* be exactly as they are to support
>>life. If even one of them changes, the whole system collapses and life
>>is wiped out.
>>
>>The fact that we are having this discussion.
>>
>>The fact that all known life comes from life.
>>
>>The fact that all known intelligence comes from intelligence.
>>
>>Shall I go on?
>
>
> see stephen hawking....apparently the universe as we know it probably
> could have started with almost ANY value of many of these parameters.
> as the universe evolved, the values converged on their present
> values...
>
> IOW god had no choice in the matter.
>

He's just guessing you know.
You *do* know that right?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Speculative Design Hypothesis (with predictions)
    ... >>>I never said evolution doesn't happen. ... >Only if it is *assumed* that life descended from a common ancestor. ... A genetic programmer. ... >> But there's no evidence for Him. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Christof Koch
    ... Simpler Origin for Life" from earlier this year by Prof. Robert Shapiro, ... Life began with the appearance of the first RNA molecule. ... before proteins and DNA in the evolution of life. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Christof Koch
    ... Simpler Origin for Life" from earlier this year by Prof. Robert Shapiro, ... Life began with the appearance of the first RNA molecule. ... before proteins and DNA in the evolution of life. ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Re: Christof Koch
    ... Simpler Origin for Life" from earlier this year by Prof. Robert Shapiro, ... Life began with the appearance of the first RNA molecule. ... before proteins and DNA in the evolution of life. ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: Christof Koch
    ... Simpler Origin for Life" from earlier this year by Prof. Robert Shapiro, ... Life began with the appearance of the first RNA molecule. ... before proteins and DNA in the evolution of life. ...
    (talk.atheism)
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