Re: Atheists are the biggest fools on Earth


Tony Sinclair wrote:
> On 10 Jan 2006 22:28:36 -0800, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >The dreams and visions in the Bible, I can see where interpretations
> >can honestly vary. But, when the Bible says that you can only get to
> >Heaven by accepting Jesus on faith and not working your way into God's
> >grace, then there is no room for interpretation.
> >
> >I'd give them all to you, but then someone would accuse me of taking
> >them out of context...as if such critics knew the context in the first
> >place. You don't even have to read the whole Bible; just look at the
> >four Gospels. It's really not that difficult.
>
> Splendid, you are just the man I'm looking for, because I have had the
> same question for many years. The Gospels (exact verses on request,
> but I'm sure you won't need them) clearly state that anyone with the
> smallest speck of faith can perform greater miracles than Jesus did,
> including casting a mountain into the sea. They clearly state that
> anything asked in prayer will be granted. They clearly state that
> believers will be able to heal the sick, handle snakes, and drink
> poison. There is no indication that these verses are not to be taken
> literally, even if they may have a metaphoric aspect as well. There
> is not even an indication that the requested miracle must be for a
> good cause; on the contrary, the _context_ of Jesus promising
> unlimited powers to any who had faith was his cursing of a fig tree
> for not having ripe fruit, even though it was not the season for figs.

Of all the questions that I have ever been asked, this is the most
insightful one. I am no expert in these matters; but, I try to answer
to the best of ability.

Yes, Jesus did say that those who will come after him will be able to
do things far greater than He did. But, he also told the disciples
that if they had the faith of a mustard seed then a mountain would move
on their command. It appears that the disciples, even though they were
following Jesus seemingly in faith, had not even a mustard seed amount
of faith. Not even a mustard seed size of faith? Apparently not.

It would not be an easy thing to leave my family, job, and home and
face ridicule and persecution for my beliefs like the disciples. How
much less is my own pathetic faith than that of the disciples. While
some miracles have occurred in my life, I wonder how many more didn't
happen and the power that I don't have because of my lack of faith.

The Bible does clearly state that anything asked for in prayer will be
granted. Now, we must understand that faith and obedience are 100%
linked together. Faith, as we learned about in James writings, is
linked with works. So it is with faith and obedience. Thus, we MUST
pray in God's will. If it is God's will that I move that mountain and
I have the faith of a mustard seed, then it WILL happen. But, instead
of looking to God as to why it didn't, maybe I need to look in the
mirror for the reason. I am sorry; but, I cannot avoid the problem of
praying in God's will.

I once asked that question to God in prayer. The idea that came to me
was that when Jesus spoke to the disciples, He had already taught them
about obedience to God's will as paramount over man's will. Jesus
seemed to assume that the disciples would remember this. Everything
that Jesus taught later was in conjunction with the earlier, more basic
teachings. In this case, you must worship the Lord your God and be
ready to forsake everything in this world.

Furthermore, I noticed this aspect when Paul (a seemingly faithful man)
prayed that God would take away the "thorn" that was bothering him.
Paul prayed in faith, yet...

"And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength
is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory
in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." - 2
Corinthians 12:9

Obviously, God's purpose trumps our desire to use His power as we see
fit, even to heal ourselves.

You are correct that these verses are to be taken literally. And, like
me, you are grasping with the issues of why don't these things happen
more if the Gospel accounts are real.

I'd love to be able to drink poison, handle snakes, and heal the sick
at will. But, would I do these things always as God sees fit? I
wouldn't. I would do things on my timing, as I saw fit, and in the
manner that I deemed best. I am not ready for God to work through me
like that. My faith and obedience to Him is not where they need to be.
No wonder the power and miracles are few and far between. What I
think might be a good cause may conflict with God's plan for another
person.

Your mentioning the fig tree is extremely important. Because it was
not time for the tree to have figs, this meant that the tree was
expected to produce figs using miraculous power, which it figuratively
chose not to do. Interesting.

OK. Are we expected by God to perform great miracles as opposed to
merely do good works when we can? Perhaps. Maybe we perform great
miracles everyday when we do something small, such as forgive an
insult, when we had no normal inclination to do so. Maybe the mountain
being moved into the sea will happen only after we handle the smaller
miracles, like using God's power to make amends with a long-lost family
member. Maybe we'll drink poison and live after we sell everything
that we have and give it to the poor. Now, THAT would be a miracle for
those bigshots on Christian television. Remember that Jesus taught his
disciples for a long time before he sent the 70 disciples on crusades
throughout the land, granting them miraculous powers.

Maybe God is still instructing you and me. Maybe God wants us to
handle the basics before we start moving the landscape for Him.

>
> So why do all these clear statements of the Bible fail? Why are there
> two major categories of Christians who believe the snake handling
> verse, namely nuts and corpses? Why do even the people who are
> willing to take a chance with a snake never test the veracity of Jesus
> by drinking Drano? Why do most Christians pretend that those promises
> were not meant to apply to everyone, and yet the speaking in tongues
> nonsense, which comes from the same verse, does? Why have I, in
> several decades of polite inquiry, never found a Christian who was
> willing to demonstrate even a very small miracle for me? Why do they
> always mumble something about the fig tree is Israel, and you
> shouldn't tempt the Lord, instead of accepting the plain meaning of
> the verses, as you say everyone should?

I think that these clear statements of the Bible "fail" because we have
failed to do what we had been told previous to our being instructed
about these powers.

People believe that they can handle snakes at will, their will not His.
They want to show others how God is using them to proclaim His
greatness, except His greatness is not the only greatness that they
desire.

People who takes chances with snakes tend not to do the same with Drano
because they know the truth deep down. Most of them aren't THAT stupid
and arrogant. And, even if they truly think that faith will keep them
safe, they don't have THAT much faith when it comes to Drano.

I don't know why you haven't ever found a Christian willing to
demonstrate a miracle. Perhaps, there are few, if any, Christians
alive today who have the faith where God is moved to bestow great
power. Perhaps the few that really have that faith know that God's
power is not to be used to sway people to believe that Jesus is Lord or
that God exists.

The few times that I have had some special ability, it was for His
glory, to fix a problem, and to instruct me. It was not for show to
convince others. I had to be careful who was around me. It seems that
God wants people to walk in obedience to Him by faith, not to see more
and more miracles.

>
> How about it? Do you accept those verses at face value, or do you
> *interpret* them so that they end up not promising much of anything?
> If the latter, what is different about them than the verses you say
> must be taken literally, other than their being falsifiable?

I accept them at face value. They promise an enormous amount of power
and ability. At first, I thought that these verses were lies because I
asked God for power and he didn't give me any. Then, it became clear
to me that I had not done what I was supposed to do. I hadn't done the
basics of what He commanded. I spent my money on material things and
not the poor. I clothed myself with designer jeans and not clothed the
naked. I fed my mind a mixture of pornography, violence, and Godless
entertainment. I watched more television than I spent studying His
Word and praying. I spent more time asking for things than thanking
Him for what I had. I harbored hate in my heart and didn't forgive
others. I was worshipping me and not the God of the universe.

The more I have changed these ways, the more God uses me in an
increasingly powerful way. And I still don't have the faith of a
mustard seed. Imagine if I gave Him my best effort. Imagine what
would happen if you did.

Tony, you sound like a man truly seeking out the truth. I'll make you
a deal. If you promise to pray and honestly ask God these very same
questions, then I'll pray that God reveals Himself to you in a real
way. Have faith and be ready.

.

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