Re: funny creationsist

On 2005-12-30, Jim Spaza <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2005, "Jim Spaza" <spaza9@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> > Let me ask you...if not for values that come from a Supreme Being,
>> > then what is the source of one's non-religious value system?
>>
>> From a thick layer of culture on top of whatever foundation evolution
>> provided, just like for religious value systems.
>>
>> But I'm curious about the apparent assumption that the existence of
>> a Supreme Being adds meaning and values to life. Why so?
>
> It's all about purpose. If we are here due to purely naturalistic
> (chemistry, forces of nature) causes, then the question of "why I
> exist" just doesn't have an unknown or zero answer. It would have a
> null answer as the question itself is void of meaning.

If you were willing to believe that your creator can give your life
meaning, why are you unwilling to believe that you can do so for yourself?

> Without a Supreme Being, then how would you know that you or anyone has
> a life of value?

Personal perspective?

> Because you feel that way?

At the heart of it, that's all you really have.

> It would seem that an
> atheist (and everyone else if there is no God) creates their own idea
> of the value and meaning of life in the back of their mind.

As do you. You just won't admit to it.

> And then, without a God, there are no standards of value and meaning as
> a planet of 4 billion people could have 4 billion different ideas of
> value and meaning.

Just as there is no wide concensus between Christians.

> It's like this: the U.S. dollar has value because of the existence,
> authority, and promise of the U.S. Government.

Actually, it has value because people are willing to exchange U.S. dollars
for goods and services. The government really has nothing to do with it:
they are just the agreed agent who creates the medium for exchange. Dollars
don't have any value which is derived from the authority of the government:
people could refuse to use them and the value of the dollar changes in
direct proportion (consider the market where the value of dollars relative
to other foreign currency is traded).

> If the U.S. Government
> suddenly ceased to exist, then the dollars that are in your pocket are
> only worth whatever someone else agrees that they are worth.

That's really all they are worth anyway Jim.


> All U.S.
> currency immediately loses established, absolute value and is worth
> only what your neighbor says it is worth, which may be nothing.
>
>>
>> If we were in fact "designed" by space aliens, would that make life
>> more meaningful than if we evolved? Would we be obligated to adopt
>> whatever values they demanded of us? Should we feel obligated to
>> abide by whatever rules they happened to impose on us?
>
> Made by aliens? Life would not necessarily have more meaning. We
> would not feel obligated (or at least I wouldn't) to adopt the aliens'
> values nor abide by their rules.

So why are we obligated to God? What's the difference?

> If we were made/designed/created by a perfect (I mean, literally
> perfect, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent) Being, then the reason
> for our existence would be a perfect reason. We might screw up our
> lives once born, but we would have started out for a perfect reason.

How could we as imperfect beings screw up perfection?

Why did your God create us as imperfect?

> Should we not take some comfort in that?

We can take comfort in lots of ideas which don't happen to be true.
Should we?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: funny creationsist
    ... > a Supreme Being adds meaning and values to life. ... null answer as the question itself is void of meaning. ... but we would have started out for a perfect reason. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: funny creationsist
    ... >>a Supreme Being adds meaning and values to life. ... > null answer as the question itself is void of meaning. ... Look around you at the world, Jim. ... > only worth whatever someone else agrees that they are worth. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: funny creationsist
    ... null answer as the question itself is void of meaning. ... If you were willing to believe that your creator can give your life ... That's all you are doing when you state your belief in God. ... only worth whatever someone else agrees that they are worth. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: funny creationsist
    ... >>> a Supreme Being adds meaning and values to life. ... >> null answer as the question itself is void of meaning. ... >> And then, without a God, there are no standards of value and meaning as ... >> only worth whatever someone else agrees that they are worth. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Break out the tambourines
    ... Life passes in an eye blink of eternity and if there is nothing else then our lives have about as much meaning as that of a dung beetle. ... Or has it "always existed because when the supreme being was formed time began, therefore the concept of time before the supreme being has no meaning"? ...
    (rec.autos.sport.f1)
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