Re: Civilised discussion


Harry K wrote:
> rja.carnegie@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> > Harry K wrote:
> > > "Harry do you know that the bible has proved science wrong on several
> > > occasions?"
> > >
> > > Me "I'll take you up on that. Just one example will do with bible
> > > quote and the science it proved wong".
>
> He came back with the inumerable star count way back when. I should
> have seen it coming that he would move the goal posts to ancient time.

I said I think that's fair. On their terms, the Bible defeating
man-made science at any past time is just as valid as the Bible
contradicting science today, but may be easier to prove.

And you should remember that a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Suppose if the Bible lists the atomic numbers of the known elements
(that'd be mostly metals), but only one of them is correct. They still
got one.

I think the principal attack on this particular case is still whether
the astronomers of antiquity made that dogmatic claim, and there occurs
to me a very good reason for supposing that they didn't: I don't think
they could see the stars of the South Pole. Taking that to be so - if
Ptolemy went far enough south of the equator to observe then my
objection probably fails - but taking it to be so, I don't think he'd
have been nutsy enough to claim he'd seen the lot, even apart from
other problems with the question. But it's tricky. If a Christian
philosopher can get away with deciding that the Earth is a giant, flat
model of the Ark of the Covenant (no one else took that seriously but
they did copy his book in their libraries), I won't deny a pagan
commentator the opportunity to make a spectacular error of unfounded
dogma. But again I pose the question: did people actually believe it?

And I've thought of another stricter condition number five: if a
majority of people /did/ believe that Ptolemy counted every single
star, was there anyone else who preferred the Bible over Ptolemy on the
question, just because the Bible is the Bible? Martin Luther, perhaps?
John Calvin? I mean, did the Bible actually lead people away from the
error of science into truth? Because if it didn't, then I'm calling
no-hitter. It's like bible code or Nostradamus - you can find anything
in there if you go in intending to find it, but that way it isn't
teaching you anything.

Here's another challenge: what about the steady state theory of the
universe, that the universe never had a beginning? Whereas the Bible
says that it did, and now scientists have come around to that view.
Well, not so; as far as I can tell, while steady state had significant
and enthusiastic support in its day, it was never the sole
scientifically credible theory of the history of the cosmos, having
been invented in competition to the Big Bang. But you see the problem?
We dodged another bullet there.

Hey, let's see if we can make the Bible predict penicillin or the
importance of personal hygiene. There's a whole lot in there about
washing.

.

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