Re: So, are there races of men?

In article <ri8tl1h0vl7ishi4d3brfrq4vk6vvdnm55@xxxxxxx>,
Jeff <guitar0633@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 15:01:22 -0500, Leonard Evens
> <len@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >Lt. Kizhe Catson wrote:
> >> floyd wrote:
> >>
> >>>Jeff wrote:
> >>>
> >>>[snip]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>There
> >>>>are clearly white men and black men.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>What criteria do you use to define the boundaries of these groups?
> >>>Which characteristics could an independent observer use to reconstruct
> >>>the same groups?
> >>>
> >>>In the absence of specific, explictit, intensionally defined criteria
> >>>for classification, your hypothesis is open to the problem of
> >>>typological creep and therefore can not be used as the basis of a
> >>>scientific test.
> >>>
> >>>If you wish for others to demonstrate that there is or is not a
> >>>measurable difference between two groups of phenomena, you need to be
> >>>explicit about the necessary and sufficient characteristics for
> >>>membership in each of the groups. In the absence of those, any claim
> >>>is untestable.
> >>
> >>
> >> OK, Jeff is an idiot with an agenda, but: I just finished _The
> >> Ancestor's Tale_ (Dawkins latest) -- great book, despite the
> >> pan-adaptationism and all that. However there is one passage in which
> >> he argues for the reality of race (as opposed to arbitrary social
> >> construction). He acknowledges that, while any individual
> >> characteristic can be shown to vary more with a given racial group than
> >> among the mean of different groups, subjects the world over, when shown
> >> photographs of people of various ethnicities, consistently group them
> >> the same way. It seems that while not every member of a given group
> >> bears all the sterotyped characters, "racial" characteristics tend to
> >> occur together. We tend to notice several characteristics, and
> >> pigeon-hole their bearers based on some sort of average or vote among
> >> them. Dawkins' explanation (typically for him) is that we evolved to
> >> recognize kin over against non-relatives.
> >>
> >> Personally, I'm not convinced. One of his examples is a group photo of
> >> Condi Rice, Colin Powell and George W. Bush. Supposedly, everyone
> >> unhesitatingly groups Powel with Rice, despite the fact that Powell's
> >> skin is almost as light as Bush's. As it happens, I don't think I knew
> >> Powell was black until I heard someone say so -- guess I'm not part of
> >> "everyone".
> >
> >I like that example. Clearly, Powell and Rice are much more intelligent
> >than Bush. So we have to conclude that Americans who are at least
> >partially of African descent are more intelligent than Americans of
> >purely European descent, mainly from early English settlers in the
> >Northeast.
> >
>
>
> Yeah, and you wouldn't let your politics warp scientific data, would
> you? Your statement above clearly shows you would. Real scientists
> should be fighting you liberal egalitarians with everything they have.
> You have infiltrated science and taken it back to the days when
> religion and politics overruled real science. What a shame.
>
> Jeff

*
Jeff: What is your educational background? Have you studied
science?

Thanks,

earle
*

.

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