Re: Seal Evolution

Bobby D. Bryant wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2005, Elroy Willis <elroywillis@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>bdbryant@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Bobby D. Bryant) wrote in talk.origins
>>
>>>Elroy Willis <elroywillis@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>>I'm currently in an email discussion with a creationist and we're
>>>>discussing seals. I presented the seal as what I consider a perfect
>>>>example of a living transitional animal. Part land animal, part sea
>>>>animal. Once they evolve to be able to reproduce completely in the
>>>>sea, then they'll take a similar path as the manitees or whales or
>>>>dolphins, is how I see them.
>>
>>>Yes, mammals provide a broad range of adaptation to aquatic life.
>>
>>I'm currently investigating how much of their adaptations are learned
>>behavior vs. natural instinct. Apparently, whale and dolphin mothers
>>have to push their babies up to the surface to teach them that they
>>need to do that in order to get air. I wonder if that's true, and
>>whether they'd float up to the surface anyway, on their own,
>>naturally...
>
> I thought I had seen a video of a newborn dolphin racing to the
> surface on its own, but perhaps I remember it wrong.
>
>>>>Naturally, he wants to see an example of a seal-like mammal with two
>>>>actual back legs. The sea otter doesn't suffice, even though it's got
>>>>really short back legs and webbed feet. It's also too small,
>>>>according to him.
>>
>>>Sounds like he'll think of some excuse to reject anything you offer.
>>
>>It's typical creationist behavior for sure. He wants to see a dog
>>give birth to a seal in a single generation, or even something more
>>than that...
>>
>>I've even tried using the following video to convince him, but it was
>>no use.
>>
>>http://www.elroysemporium.com/videos/divingdog.wmv
>>
>>"Can you at least imagine a dog with slightly more webbed feet faring
>>better at diving deeper and swimming better in the water to catch fish
>>in the sea?" I asked him.
>
> Polar bears are a good example of that "just barely" adaptation.
>
>>He then trotted out the mistaken idea that one day a wolf jumped into
>>the sea, deciding it wanted to become a seal, and presto chango, it
>>woke up the next morning a fully-formed seal, without even needing to
>>reproduce! :)
>>
>>I think I remember seeing a Jack Chick tract about that scenario, and
>>figure that's where he got it from. :)
>
> I've never figured out if that stuff is what they actually believe
> evolution is all about, or if they just paint themselves into that
> corner with their arguments.

They really believe it. In my experience, the average creationist isn't
stupid or malicious; he's just undereducated. They don't really know
anything about evolution, except what they hear from the pulpit: Have
you ever seen a horse turn into a shark, how can everything come from
nothing, WERE YOU THERE, et cetera. They really *don't* understand that
evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the universe, the age of
the Earth, or C14 dating.
They're taught to distrust scientists, since scientists are a bunch of
atheists and ivory-tower intellectuals. ("Intellectual" is a dirty word
to the theocrats who lead the flock.) They're also indoctrinated with
the belief that accepting evolution means rejecting Christ and accepting
a pointless, empty life that ends in oblivion, so naturally they have
something of a mental block against learning anything that might show
evolutionary theory to be true.
It's really not their fault; they don't know enough about biology (or
physics, or geology, or astronomy) to see the holes in the arguments put
forward by the "professional" creationists. Ham, Hovind, Dembski, and
their ilk, however, DO know enough to know better-- so they are without
excuse.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero

.

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