Re: Convergence leaves the evolutionist completely dumbfounded

Kant wrote:

> Since both the creation and evolutionary frameworks attempt to explain
> biological convergence, an analysis of this feature of nature can be used to
> evaluate the two paradigms. When critically assessed, the evolutionary
> paradigm is found to be woefully inadequate when accounting for all the
> facets of biological convergence. On the other hand, biological convergence
> is readily explained by an origins model that evokes a single Creator.
>
> One of the challenges that convergence creates for the evolutionary paradigm
> is the frequency with which it occurs throughout life's history. Convergence
> is a common characteristic of life. This commonness makes little sense in
> light of evolutionary theory. If evolution is indeed responsible for the
> diversity of life, one would expect convergence to be extremely rare. The
> mechanism that drives the evolutionary process consists of a large number of
> unpredictable, chance events that occur one after another. Given this
> mechanism and the complexity and fine-tuning of biological systems, it seems
> improbable that disparate evolutionary pathways would ever lead to the same
> biological feature.4

Argument from incredulity?

> Two remarkable examples of complex biological features recently recognized
> as being convergent are bat echolocation (the ability of an organism to
> orient itself based on perceiving reflections of sound it emits) and parrot,
> songbird, and hummingbird forebrain structure. A recent DNA sequence
> analysis has just confirmed two earlier studies that, from an evolutionary
> perspective, requires echolocation in bats to have evolved independently in
> two separate groups (microchiroptera and megachiroptera).5, 6, 7 This
> study, along with previous analyses also indicate that the strikingly
> similar limb structures of bats and flying lemurs used for flying, likewise,
> must have evolved independently, when the data is interpreted from an
> evolutionary perspective.

I would argue against this at greater length if I had any idea that you
had actually read this, much less the original sources. It's also a bad
idea to post text that relies on footnotes without also posting the
footnotes. Echolocation isn't all that complex. It's actually evolved
convergently at least three times in birds too, and at least once in
shrews.

Flying lemurs don't fly, they glide. Their "wings" are about as
strikingly similar to those of bats as are the "wings" of flying
squirrels. And at any rate, they seem to be the sister group of bats.

> Another recent study, employing behavioral differences in gene expression in
> brain tissue, has demonstrated that the brain structure of hummingbirds,
> songbirds, and parrots responsible for vocal learning (the ability to
> "learn" vocalizations by imitation rather than by instinct) is essentially
> identical.8, 9

> This is surprising, since these three birds are unrelated to
> one another.

You presumably mean "not each others' sister group", since all birds,
not to mention all organisms, are related. While this is clearly true of
hummingbirds and the others, we don't actually know whether parrots are
or are not the sister of birds. Besides which, you haven't determined
whether other birds have these same structures or not.

> That is, the seven distinct structures in the forebrain of
> these three groups of birds that are responsible for vocal learning are
> convergent.

Not evident based on what you have said here.

> From an evolutionary perspective, these structures must have
> evolved independently of one another on three separate occasions.

I don't see why this is a problem, even if it's true. You would have to
show that it's unlikely. Just saying "it's unlikely" won't do. And of
course we have good evidence that all these animals are indeed related,
so convergent evolution, by some mechanism or other, is logically required.

At least you are now identifying the sites you cut and paste from. I
commend this improvement in your morals. You are no longer plagiarizing.

> http://www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2000issue04/index.shtml#convergence_evidence_for_a_single_creator
>

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Convergence leaves the evolutionist completely dumbfounded
    ... the evolutionary paradigm is found to be woefully inadequate when accounting for all the facets of biological convergence. ... If evolution is indeed responsible for the diversity of life, one would expect convergence to be extremely rare. ... study, along with previous analyses also indicate that the strikingly similar limb structures of bats and flying lemurs used for flying, likewise, must have evolved independently, when the data is interpreted from an evolutionary perspective. ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Convergence leaves the evolutionist completely dumbfounded
    ... biological convergence, an analysis of this feature of nature can be used to ... facets of biological convergence. ... One of the challenges that convergence creates for the evolutionary paradigm ... If evolution is indeed responsible for the ...
    (sci.anthropology)
  • Convergence leaves the evolutionist completely dumbfounded
    ... biological convergence, an analysis of this feature of nature can be used to ... facets of biological convergence. ... One of the challenges that convergence creates for the evolutionary paradigm ... If evolution is indeed responsible for the ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Convergence leaves the evolutionist completely dumbfounded
    ... >>facets of biological convergence. ... > vertebrate forelimbs are modified to form the wings of pterosaurs, birds, ... If evolution is indeed ... >>Two remarkable examples of complex biological features recently recognized ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Species diversity through time
    ... you think that the history of life is indeed a series of inevitable ... The sample size for some cases of convergence is in the ... islands is a fair approximation of this "runnin the tape again" thing. ... evolution in a more modern way. ...
    (talk.origins)
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