Re: Dawkin's latest

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:40:30 +0000 (UTC), in talk.origins ,
lamoran@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Larry Moran) in
<slrndiiuee.epv.lamoran@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>On 15 Sep 2005 20:34:54 +1000,
>Chris Ho-Stuart <hostuart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Murf <rob_murfin@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Now that "The ancesters tale" is out in paperback (at least here in the
>>> UK) I thought it was about time to invest in a copy.
>>>
>>> What is it like? I have read the rest of his stuff.
>>>
>>> (BTW I enjoyed "Climbing Mt Improbable" the best so far.
>>>
>>> Constructive comments please!
>>
>> Very impressive. I've just finished it.
>>
>> The theme is innovative, and gives a useful thread to tie in
>> a whole series of essays on little topics relating to evolution.
>>
>> It is actually about 60 or so different tales, and each one has
>> a point. Thank goodness he does not use the first person; they
>> are all little essays to illustrate some aspect. Symbiosis,
>> sexual selection, selection driven by behaviour, isolating
>> mechanisms, predator/prey arms races.
>>
>> There are a few of Dawkins' favourite hobby horses; his gene
>> centric perspective comes through quite strongly. But it is also
>> a bit more wide ranging; and positive about some of his usual
>> targets. Nothing but positive comments for Gould and for Keith
>> Miller, for example.
>
>Chris, what do you think of the following passage in the book?
>Gould isn't mentioned by name but there's no doubt that he's
>the target.
>
> "I have no quarrel with a working distinction between
> microevolution and macroevolution. I do have a quarrel
> with those people who elevate this rather mundane
> practical distinction into one of almost - or more than
> almost - mystical import. There are those who think that
> Dawrin's theory of evolution by natural selection explains
> microevolution, but is in principle impotent to explain
> macroevolution, which consequently needs an extra
> ingedient - in some cases a *divine* extra ingredient.

Wow, that is offensive.

> Unfortunately, this hankering after skyhooks has been
> given aid and comfort by real scientists whose intentions
> are inncocent of such thing. I have discussed the theory
> of 'punctuated equilibrium' before, too often and too
> thoroughly to repeat myself in this book, so I shall
> only add that its advocates usually go on to propose a
> fundamental 'decoupling' between microevoluton and
> macroevolution. This is an unwarrented assumption. No
> extra ingedient needs to be added at the micro level to
> explain the macro level." p. 499
>
>Do you agree with Dawkins that natural selection alone explains
>microevolution?

I don't think he says that, though he may believe it. Darwin's theory
of evolution by natural selection does not say that NS is all there
is. The theory has two components: descent with modification and
Natural Selection. I think that drift is implied, a necessary
implication in fact, by those.

>Do you agree with him that no other ingredient
>(such as speciation) needs to be added in order to explain
>macroevolution? Do you agree with he and Dennett that Gould
>was seeking skyhooks? Do you agree with the attempt to associate
>punctuated equilibrium with Creationism?
>
>> I've tended to be a bit critical of Dawkins in the past; but
>> this has made me a convert.
>
>It's a wonderful collection of adaptionist just-so stories.
>
>What if he can't think of a good just-so story? That doesn't stop
>him, he still advocates the supremacy of adaptation.
>
> "(The aye-aye) has disconcertingly wide-set eyes in a
> ghostly pale face. The fingers are absurdly long: the
> fingers of an Arthur Rackham witch. 'Absurd' only by
> human standards, however, for we may be sure those
> fingers are long for a good reason: aye-ayes with shorter
> fingers would be penalized by natural selection, even
> if we don't know why. Natural selection is a strong
> enough theory to be predictive in this fashion, now that
> science no longer needs convincing of its truth." p.140

Wow. Just wow. At least he is clear about his position.


--
Matt Silberstein

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