Re: Julian Jaynes on Consciousness


"r norman" <NotMyRealEmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:40a2g1d6le6d9om9bqd012t7l33m67rjme@xxxxxxxxxx
> On 15 Aug 2005 11:41:48 EDT, "Bob Pease"
> <robertjp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> >
> >"r norman" <NotMyRealEmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >news:pub1g19bq44u80kkov9vo5nr822is01fsu@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> On 15 Aug 2005 10:43:58 EDT, "Bob Pease"
> >> <robertjp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"r norman" <NotMyRealEmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> >> >news:hnmvf1laoi5k5a9cs9jnj1qpfg6k8jmdd4@xxxxxxxxxx
> >> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:24:25 -0700, Earle Jones
> >> >> <earle.jones@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > "The cerebral activity that precedes and follows an action
response
> >> >> >is consciousness. Jaynes believes that man of antiquity had no
> >> >> >consciousness -- that when faced with a novel situation, he simply
> >> >> >reacted. He reacted without hesitation by following the directions
> >> >> >of a personal voice that told him exactly what to do. Ancient man
> >> >> >called this voice God; today it is called an auditory
hallucination."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --From "Science Frontiers", commenting on
> >> >> > Julian Jaynes "The Origin of Consciousness
> >> >> > and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"
> >> >> >
> >> >> >earle
> >> >> >*
> >> >> > "The opinions given here are mine, and are not necessarily the
> >> >> >opinions of the Princeton Institute for Advanced Study, the Archive
> >> >> >of Rational Mechanics, the Standard Oil Company, or the Catholic
> >> >> >Church."
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --Earle Jones
> >> >>
> >> >> Jaynes published that 1n 1976, almost thirty years ago. Even then,
> >> >> virtually nobody believed it.
> >> >>
> >> >> As I recall, he proposed that consciousness developed between the
time
> >> >> of the Iliad and the time of the Odyssey.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Jaynes was suggested to me as the ultimate answer to everything.
> >> >The lady who suggested it also claimed that I needed to change jobs
> >because
> >> >I dreamed about oysters.
> >> >
> >>
> >> If you still do dream about oysters, you definitely should change
> >> something.
> >
> >I tried that, but then it was turtles.
> >So oysters is what I got back to.
> >Now, it's Oysters all the way down,
> >Besides, who ever heard of Turtle on the Half shell??
> >
>
> Turtle on the half shell is a hell of lot easier to eat than turtle on
> the full shell! (But then the same is true for oysters.)
>
> Actually there is a particularly gruesome physiology experiment that
> used to be routine in labs -- the turtle heart preparation. The
> turtle heart is notoriously tough -- it continues to beat for hours
> and hours after the dissection and exposure as long as you keep it
> properly moistened with the proper perfusion solution. In the olden
> days, it involved going at the beast with a hacksaw (after properly
> pithing it) cutting away the plastron (lower shell). It really was
> quite a messy process. The result, for good reason, was often called
> "turtle on the half shell" (the remaining half being the carapace, the
> upper shell). Then, I think sometime in the sixties (yes, I go way,
> way back in history!) people discovered a device called a drill press
> with a hole saw. So then you just plopped the pithed beast on its
> back on a board with a hemispherical depression to hold it still and
> drilled a 2 inch diameter hole through its plastron to expose the
> heart. That was called "turtle on the 3/4 shell" but people who
> weren't around earlier never knew what it meant.
>
> Then people became far more sensitive to wanton use of animals in labs
> and the popularity of that preparation tended to die down a bit.
> Frogs are OK but are a bit more delicate. Being a comparative
> physiologist, I like to use lobsters isolating the beating heart only
> as part of a different lab experiment and so getting double duty from
> one animal. If you are careful not to select an experiment involving
> the tail or claws, you also get to eat the remains. Eating legs of
> frogs you have dissected tends to be far less fun, especially when you
> see the quantity of internal parasites you expose.
>

Hence the roigin of the expression
"Plunk yer magic twanger, Froggy!"

RJ P


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Julian Jaynes on Consciousness
    ... >>>I dreamed about oysters. ... Turtle on the half shell is a hell of lot easier to eat than turtle on ... used to be routine in labs -- the turtle heart preparation. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Obstructions
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  • Re: opening oysters with stone tools?
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  • Re: Question about my Red Eared Slider
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  • Re: News: Chinas ancestral turtle sheds light on evolution.
    ... Picture Proganochelys: ... formed belly shell and a back shell that appeared to be just evolving. ... of the turtle developed. ... The fossils were uncovered in marine deposits in the Nanpanjiang ...
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