Re: Julian Jaynes on Consciousness

On 15 Aug 2005 11:41:48 EDT, "Bob Pease"
<robertjp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>
>"r norman" <NotMyRealEmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>news:pub1g19bq44u80kkov9vo5nr822is01fsu@xxxxxxxxxx
>> On 15 Aug 2005 10:43:58 EDT, "Bob Pease"
>> <robertjp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"r norman" <NotMyRealEmail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >news:hnmvf1laoi5k5a9cs9jnj1qpfg6k8jmdd4@xxxxxxxxxx
>> >> On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:24:25 -0700, Earle Jones
>> >> <earle.jones@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > "The cerebral activity that precedes and follows an action response
>> >> >is consciousness. Jaynes believes that man of antiquity had no
>> >> >consciousness -- that when faced with a novel situation, he simply
>> >> >reacted. He reacted without hesitation by following the directions
>> >> >of a personal voice that told him exactly what to do. Ancient man
>> >> >called this voice God; today it is called an auditory hallucination."
>> >> >
>> >> > --From "Science Frontiers", commenting on
>> >> > Julian Jaynes "The Origin of Consciousness
>> >> > and the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"
>> >> >
>> >> >earle
>> >> >*
>> >> > "The opinions given here are mine, and are not necessarily the
>> >> >opinions of the Princeton Institute for Advanced Study, the Archive
>> >> >of Rational Mechanics, the Standard Oil Company, or the Catholic
>> >> >Church."
>> >> >
>> >> > --Earle Jones
>> >>
>> >> Jaynes published that 1n 1976, almost thirty years ago. Even then,
>> >> virtually nobody believed it.
>> >>
>> >> As I recall, he proposed that consciousness developed between the time
>> >> of the Iliad and the time of the Odyssey.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Jaynes was suggested to me as the ultimate answer to everything.
>> >The lady who suggested it also claimed that I needed to change jobs
>because
>> >I dreamed about oysters.
>> >
>>
>> If you still do dream about oysters, you definitely should change
>> something.
>
>I tried that, but then it was turtles.
>So oysters is what I got back to.
>Now, it's Oysters all the way down,
>Besides, who ever heard of Turtle on the Half shell??
>

Turtle on the half shell is a hell of lot easier to eat than turtle on
the full shell! (But then the same is true for oysters.)

Actually there is a particularly gruesome physiology experiment that
used to be routine in labs -- the turtle heart preparation. The
turtle heart is notoriously tough -- it continues to beat for hours
and hours after the dissection and exposure as long as you keep it
properly moistened with the proper perfusion solution. In the olden
days, it involved going at the beast with a hacksaw (after properly
pithing it) cutting away the plastron (lower shell). It really was
quite a messy process. The result, for good reason, was often called
"turtle on the half shell" (the remaining half being the carapace, the
upper shell). Then, I think sometime in the sixties (yes, I go way,
way back in history!) people discovered a device called a drill press
with a hole saw. So then you just plopped the pithed beast on its
back on a board with a hemispherical depression to hold it still and
drilled a 2 inch diameter hole through its plastron to expose the
heart. That was called "turtle on the 3/4 shell" but people who
weren't around earlier never knew what it meant.

Then people became far more sensitive to wanton use of animals in labs
and the popularity of that preparation tended to die down a bit.
Frogs are OK but are a bit more delicate. Being a comparative
physiologist, I like to use lobsters isolating the beating heart only
as part of a different lab experiment and so getting double duty from
one animal. If you are careful not to select an experiment involving
the tail or claws, you also get to eat the remains. Eating legs of
frogs you have dissected tends to be far less fun, especially when you
see the quantity of internal parasites you expose.




.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Julian Jaynes on Consciousness
    ... >>So oysters is what I got back to. ... who ever heard of Turtle on the Half shell?? ... > properly moistened with the proper perfusion solution. ...
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