Re: Intelligent Design in a nutshell

floyd wrote:

> Rick Merrill wrote:
>
>>Cyde Weys wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm still kind of in shock that I found something so intelligent on Fark,
>>>but here you go ...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Intelligent design = Creationsism.
>>>
>>>Anyone who can't see that is either developmentally disabled, incredibly
>>>naive, or in on the game.
>>
>>What, like Albert Einstein?!
>
>
>
> Yes, Einstein would certainly have been able to see through the ID
> claim to be something other than "olde timey" creationism dressed up in
> a stolen lab coat.
>
>
>>Quote: "god does not play dice with the universe."
>
>
> If you really want to play dueling quotes:
>
> "The more a man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events the
> firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of
> this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature. For him
> neither the rule of human nor the rule of divine will exists as an
> independent cause of natural events. To be sure, the doctrine of a
> personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in
> the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in
> those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to
> set foot.
>

That reminds me of the question "can god create a rock so big that he
cannot move it." It acknowledges that a god of the gaps can be a
personal inspiration and (obviously) never disproved by science.

But it need not be 'fatal' because of the strength of a believing
community and the courage faith gives to carry on regardless of the
trias and obstacles.

> But I am convinced that such behavior on the part of representatives of
> religion would not only be unworthy but also fatal. For a doctrine
> which is to maintain itself not in clear light but only in the dark,
> will of necessity lose its effect on mankind, with incalculable harm to
> human progress. In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of
> religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal
> God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past
> placed such vast power in the hands of priests. In their labors they
> will have to avail themselves of those forces which are capable of
> cultivating the Good, the True, and the Beautiful in humanity itself.
> This is, to be sure, a more difficult but an incomparably more worthy
> task ..."
> ~Einstein, A. 1941 _Science, Philosophy, and Religion, A
> Symposium_. Conference on Science, Philosophy, and Religion in Their
> Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York
>
> and
>
> "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions,
> a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a
> personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it
> clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is
> the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our
> science can reveal it."
> ~Einstein, A. 1979 _Albert Einstein: The Human Side: New Glimpses
> from his Archives_, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman Princeton
> University Press, Princeton
>
>
>
> Whatever Einstein thought about Christianity is itself precisely as
> relevant to the truth or falsity of Christian doctrine as is my opinion
> of General Relativity. Physics is not my field of study, so I don't
> know enough about it to comment with any more authority than my car
> mechanic or Lenny's pizza delivery guy. Einstein was not a theologian,
> so his opinion on the validity of Christian beliefs is also that of an
> intelligent lay person. His demonstrated brilliance in physics does
> not give Einstein any special insight into theology, biology,
> pediatrics or pizza delivery. It's not his job.
>

Having an "unbounded admiration for the structure of the world" is often
the foundation for faith for many people: from the glory of the sunset
to the magnificence of Maxwell's equations or any personal experience.

>
>
>>There are many variations of How God could influence evolution.
>>Heck, He invented it!
>
>
>
> Perhaps, although that is a religious and not a scientific claim.
> Biology doesn't study the supernatural. God can do anything He
> darned-well pleases, including covering all traces of Him doing
> anything at all. That's why a belief in God's intervention in
> evolution is a comforting and valid religious sentiment that is shared
> by most believers but it is not and can not ever be a scientific claim.
> And that is why no claims about extra-natural, supernatural or
> supernormal intervention, including the honest (but IMO fatally flawed)
> "olde timey" creationism of Gish and Morris and the flashy new ID
> creationism of Behe and Johnson and their lot are equivalent concepts,
> as Cyde mentioned.
>
> (BTW, Einstein was apparently wrong about quantum theory, which was the
> context of the "dice" comment.)
>

Uncle! I hope you quoted all those from memory!-) Well it remains
plausible to see god as the final arbiter for what the mathematics wants
to see as chance. Thanks for the thoughtful quotes.

.

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