Re: Funny...

On 22 Apr 2007 17:16:00 -0700, bobcrowley@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:01 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 22 Apr 2007 16:16:48 -0700, bobcrow...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Apr 22, 9:19 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 21 Apr 2007 16:08:37 -0700, bobcrow...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Apr 22, 12:44 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:25:12 +0100, "The DA"

<thedevilsadvoc...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As a Christian (Catholic, ex Protestant) who was once atheist, I have
now been a Christian so long that I've almost forgotten what my
atheist mental attitude was. However you're correct in that there is
an element of faith in religion, just as there is in atheism, in the
sense that one believes.

Nonsense. Religion requires faith - a belief in something which cannot be
proven - but atheism does not.

So many of them claim to be ex-atheists, yet give themselves away like
that.

They're probably used to fooling fellow church members who have no
idea what it means to be atheist, and forget with whom they're
talking.

It seems to me that the three replies are exactly the sort of
predictable dialogue that Kelley.Bellard was complaining about in the
original post.

Then why did you pretend to be an ex-atheist? Why did you lie about
atheism requiring faith?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I've seen this argument ad nauseum - that somehow Christians could
never have been atheists at some earlier stage.

Why do you lie? Nobody says that, just that...

AN EX-ATHEIST WOULD KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE ATHEIST.

Which you don't.

As demonstrated by your telling us that it requires faith.

You were either lying about that, or lying about having been
atheist...

BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT WASN'T TRUE.

Well?

What you're saying then is that an atheist cannot possibly change
their mind viz. that is, their minds are completely closed.

You're lying yet again by putting words in my mouth you know perfectly
well I didn't say.

Rest assured there was a time when I believed that, like Carl Sagan,
that the only thing there is was the visible universe. And I did not
become a Christian by some intellectual argument that this was not the
case.

You're lying again.

Because there is no "intellectual argument" that makes anybody become
Christian. The "arguments" all rely on Christian presumptions which
you wouldn't have had if you had been atheist.

I believed that at that time, despite the fact the universe is a "sum
zero energy universe" and literally adds up to nothing, being held in
existence by enormous, balancing forces. That's another reason why,
in my humble opinion, I now have no problem with Peter's description
of the universe "vanishing" at the end of time. If it adds up to
"zero energy", then in the maker's plan, it could not have been built
to last. Or if you like, would you give a murderous species like
Mankind a really solid universe, or would you give it a stage prop on
which to strut their stuff while judging them for their actions and
motives.

I doubt you "believed" that because it is not a belief.

If you don't believe me about the "sum zero energy universe" bit, type
it into the search bar on Google or whatever you use. There'll you
find sober scientific reasons for believing it.

Only if you equivocate between tentative conclusions and an
unjustified religious belief.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As an atheist, what you're claiming is that an organised universe ,

As a theist, you're lying again because this is nothing to do with
atheism, apart from being your own caricature.

{
snip]

Who are you kidding? And then you turn around and accuse us of having
Faith! You hypcrites.

You're lying again.
.

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