Funny...

How atheists are so adamant about how right they are and how stupid
theists are for not seeing the truth about God's existence. The
typical discussion:

Theist: God exists! Repent and be saved! Yadda yadda!

Atheist: Sky pixies and spaghetti monsters. Blah blah blah.

Theist: You can't prove God doesn't exist. He's outside the realm of
science. Yadda yadda yadda.

Atheist: Supernatural things aren't supernatural if they are real.
Read the last post slowly. Blah blah blah.

Theist: Look how many people believe! Are they all wrong? What do
you think faith means, dumbass? What about morality and intelligent
design and the First Cause and Yadda yadda yadda.

Athiest: You've just committed a <insert logical fallicy name
here>.. The burden of proof is on you.. Why is skydaddy hiding?
Blah blah blah.

Theist: <Some founding father quote>

Athiest: <Some other founding father quote>

Theist: I feel sorry for you.. you are close minded and empty and
blah blah blah.

Athiest: Hey, I'm going to call you <insert witty and insulting
nickname based on Theists nickname>. IDiots! 2000 thousand gods and
I only believe one less than you and yadda yadda yadda.

OK, so there are variations. I could spend a whole evening parodying
the posts I've seen on this and other newsgroups. And, yes, I'm being
overly glib and I'm sure some of your are insulted, but you have to
admit that the pattern of churn here has become thoroughly
monotonous.

I should also say that I'm an atheist, which is why I'm being
particularly hard on the fellow atheists out there. I fully
appreciate the power and elegance of the scientific theory and the
mind-blowing amount of understanding and innovation that flows from
it, and I get the myriad arguments grounded in logic used to justify
the atheist position. Hell, I even admire those of you who keep at it
on these NGs, because I know that there's benefit to keeping the
volume up on our side of the debate and 'coming out of the closet' so
that the perception of atheism improves in our culture.

I think that at some point these forums should be more than a chance
to hear yourself repeat ad nauseum the same arguments. I might be a
little more tolerant of them if, just once, a Thiest said "Your
arguments are sound. I will stop believing in God." But this is
obviously not the case. You're arguing with people who have no
interest in being further informed on the subject. Or even if an
atheist said "yep, maybe there is a God, sign me up." This is just as
unlikely. As a theist, you are trying to convince athiests that,
ultimately, faith is the key to believing, but you must know that
faith is by definition not something you just decide on, and that an
athiest's faithlessness is the same as the faithlessness you have on
an infinite number of empirically unprovable concepts.

On thing I've come to accept is that religion is a part of humanity,
of which there are a number of theories explaining why. It's also
been proven time and again that there's very little in our basic
nature amenable to science - it's a learned discipline that goes
completely against our urge to form premature beliefs about the world
based on sketchy data and an abundance of inference.

So, thiests aren't idiots (OK, some of them are. I think Duke spent
his childhood evenly split between bullying people and eating paint).
They are human, trying to find a frame of reference to put meaning
into their lives using the most human of mental tools.

And there is a great argument to be made that spiritualism is a way to
cope with and make sense of the mysteries of our own existence - that
as humans, this form of coping has value and can actually help lead a
richer life, regardless of whether or not it based on things that are
true. (You can take that and jump directly to how religions are bad
and show numerous examples of it, but you'd be missing the point.) We
can't just dig in and toss the same arguments over to the other side
and pretend that one day we can find the irrational part of our brain
and lobotomize it. We're stuck with it indefinitely, and as long is
it is there, the religions will keep evolving, become
institutionalized, get corrupted, die away, and come back in a
different form.

I don't really know what the answer is. I am interested in hearing
your thoughts on this, and if there's a way to break out the rut,
embrace the irrational in all of us, and try to come out of the other
side with some way to start bridging the gap while still being honest.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Funny...
    ... theists are for not seeing the truth about God's existence. ... Yadda yadda! ... Blah blah blah. ... Hence any debate between Christians and atheists will inevitably ...
    (talk.atheism)
  • Re: Have we become alt.atheism?
    ... Well, since creationism, as an, uh, "alternative scientific view" is ... talk about is "Jesus blah blah blah God blah blah blah Bible blah blah ... The war between the evangelical theists and the evangelical ... atheists, however, is eternal and never-ending. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: the meaning of the holocaust for scientists
    ... He claims to be a Christian. ... Ray, I get so confused trying to keep up with your "psychology". ... Atheists and theists are mortal enemies. ... atheists and theists are mortal enemies. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Spirituality
    ... there most certainly would be atheists. ... We DO have theists here. ... They don't need my lack of theism to be validated. ... create exclusions by their invention. ...
    (uk.philosophy.atheism)
  • Re: the meaning of the holocaust for scientists
    ... He claims to be a Christian. ... Atheists and theists are mortal enemies. ... atheists and theists are mortal enemies. ...
    (talk.origins)