Re: The logic of atheism

Christopher A. Lee wrote:
"Paul Holbach" <paulholbachDELETETHENAME@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

What do you mean by "invent falsehoods"?
That it is not the case that many non-believers consider their weak
atheism a free lunch, i.e. that they think they do not have to justify
themselves at all?

None of the ones I've met.

I've happened to meet others.

That sounds like your spin on the fact that
they have nothing to defend, and that you refuse to grant this.

You're begging the question because in my opinion they do have
something to defend or, better, to justify. The weak atheists are fully
justified in not believing in God's existence if and only if they are
capable of invalidating the arguments of the theists, because in the
case of there being sound pro-theistic arguments even weak atheism
would /not/ be justified.

It's a matter of fairness to concede that there are sophisticated
theistic arguments (e.g. Platinga's Free Will Defense) which cannot
simply be brushed aside with a wave of one's hand.

Sigh.

It's STILL merely part of somebody else's religion. No different than
any other religious beliefs. There is simply no reason even to
consider it.

That's the kind of intellectual dishonesty I was referring to.
Weak atheism cannot be justified through mere ignorance.
The theists may demand that their best rational arguments be taken into
account by us atheists. (Equally, a theist must not simply ignore the
atheistic counter-arguments.)

My practical experience (as a "strong" atheist among the irreligious)
has taught me that there actually are many so-called weak atheists who
are intellectually dishonest insofar as they stubbornly refuse to
accept that they too bear some burden of justification, for if some of
the theistic arguments should turn out to be sound, one would no longer
be rationally justified in /not/ believing in God's existence.

All of which is your own deningrating spin. The only dishonesty I've
seen here is your own, due to your refusal to grant that weak atheism
isn't what you imagine - incidentally a problem I've seen other strong
atheists having.

I know very well what weak or negative atheism is and that, as a
reflective adult standpoint, it does bear some justificational burden,
not being an ideologist's ideal free lunch.

For starters, there isn't even a coherent, valid, real world
definition of it as something that could be denied.

Theism is threatened by conceptual incoherence, but not all theists are
hopelessly bewildered by their own ideas.

Think of the presumptions behind what you think we should do: why the
heck should we start off from the implicit presumption of something
that is only part of the theist paradigm, not ours?

A weak atheist does not have to refute the theistic arguments in order
for him to be justified in /becoming/ an unbeliever but to be justified
in /remaining/ an unbeliever.

Regards
PH

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The logic of atheism
    ... atheism a free lunch, i.e. that they think they do not have to justify ... something to defend or, better, to justify. ... The theists may demand that their best rational arguments be taken into ... not being an ideologist's ideal free lunch. ...
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  • Re: The logic of atheism
    ... That it is not the case that many non-believers consider their weak ... atheism a free lunch, i.e. that they think they do not have to justify ... I don't have to justify a damn thing to a nosey ass hole theist. ...
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  • Re: A good gesture by Celtic
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    (uk.sport.football.clubs.celtic)
  • Re: A good gesture by Celtic
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  • Re: A good gesture by Celtic
    ... I don't need my atheism justified at all ... You use the slightest wee thing to justify yourself not believing ... I have said before that most of my family are Catholics you ... religion in particular, ...
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