Re: About those ornamental grasses...

On 3 Jun 2006 23:10:07 -0400, against all advice, something
compelled Penelope Periwinkle <pperiwinkle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, to
say:

On 3 Jun 2006 10:21:37 -0400, Steve Daniels <sdaniels@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Penelope Periwinkle said:
Steve Daniels wrote:
Penelope Periwinkle said:

One of the ideas that I really like is of making new homes
partially solar.

It takes more energy to make a solar panel than said panel will
ever return in electricity. There is no free lunch, entropy is
still the winner.

That's outdated, actually.

Is it, "actually"? So we can use the power generated from one
solar panel to create another solar panel? That's great,
although you'd think perpetual motion would have received more
notice in the press.

Jeez, who pissed in your corn flakes? The sun is constantly
adding energy to the solar panel or solar collector system, which
makes a mockery of your perpetual motion mockery; but you already
knew that.

Trees and flowers and plants make an even greater mockery of it,
and using grasses like switchgrass and miscanthus to produce
chemical energy is just adding a few steps to the solar energy
equation. Solar panels are no where near chlorophyll efficient,
but they're getting better over time. And I still dream of having
a solar home someday. I don't expect to generate all the power I
need, but I think it would be wickedly cool to generate half or
even three quarters of my own power through solar panels and
collectors.


Well, I guess it's not "actually" perpetual motion, since it will
only last as long as the Sun shines, but still.

Exactly, which is why I said "The problem with both wind and
solar power are, of course, that there are days when the sun
doesn't shine, and the wind doesn't blow" in my first post on
this subject.

It takes energy to build a car. It takes energy to make
toothpicks, white lines on the freeway, and solar panels.

It takes *more* energy to make a solar panel than the solar panel
will ever return in its lifetime, even if that lifetime is forty
years. And *that* means that every solar panel you see
represents a net loss of energy to the planet. Oh, and the
manufacturing process leaves some really nasty byproducts. They
are a lot like integrated circuits in this way, and there are
serious precautions required to protect the environment from
them.

They're good for places where running power lines is impossible
or impractical, and the power requirements are low. In these
cases they are the only power source used, they are not used as a
supplement. You see them along the river, where they are used to
recharge the batteries that run the lights on the aids to
navigation.

But on a house? A house that is already connected to the grid?

Figure out how much the panels will cost, including installation.
Figure out how much power this will give you for one year. Then
look at your power bill and see how much it would cost to just
buy that same amount of power from the grid. You'll find that
solar electricity is the most expensive power you will ever use.
It's not free, it's not clean, and it's only sort of reliable.

This does not apply to solar water heaters because they are
easier to build, being some pipe under glass and all.

It wouldn't much surprise me to find that it takes more power to
plant, raise, harvest, and process J. Random Plant into alcohol
then the alcohol will return in energy.


--

We can not defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home.

Edward R. Murrow

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: if you were president
    ... energy over its lifetime/ to create another solar panel. ... materials at the core of solar power -- which would otherwise be ... Solar power is just as intermittent as wind. ...
    (misc.writing)
  • Re: if you were president
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    (misc.writing)
  • Re: if you were president
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    (misc.writing)
  • Renewable energy payback is better than interest fromha money in the banks
    ... Now sun power is really hot ... better to spend $20,000 on solar panels and get a higher return over ... concluded that wind energy has one of the shortest energy payback ... An 8m square solar panel will generate 950 kilowatt hours ...
    (sci.physics)
  • Renewable energy payback is better than interest fromha money in the banks
    ... Now sun power is really hot ... better to spend $20,000 on solar panels and get a higher return over ... concluded that wind energy has one of the shortest energy payback ... An 8m square solar panel will generate 950 kilowatt hours ...
    (sci.energy)