Re: Breaking: Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision

"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message news:k4sd85hu4st4772s0an1t53e84uvts23ff@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:30:30 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ivfc85dqtnc42v805vfp3obq2sj1uv7u99@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:23:52 -0700, Rita <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:11:43 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Jim E" <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:qdlb85t4ig88rc3d7fil2cbbuui4uaspeh@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:45:17 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Rita" <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:tg69855cl653keq9q0i91fru0lb8t7lek7@xxxxxxxxxx
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:33:24 -0500, Jean Smith
<go_termite@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

In article <ucr885t16lei11oil1ogtu9k0s00tm8h8t@xxxxxxx>,
Jim E <noyb @nowhere.com> wrote:

Finance Committee to drop end-of-life provision
By Michael O'Brien
Posted: 08/13/09 02:21 PM [ET]
The Senate Finance Committee will drop a controversial provision
on
consultations for end-of-life care from its proposed healthcare
bill,
its top Republican member said Thursday.

The committee, which has worked on putting together a bipartisan
healthcare reform bill, will drop the controversial provision
after
it
was derided by conservatives as "death panels" to encourage
euthanasia.

"On the Finance Committee, we are working very hard to avoid
unintended consequences by methodically working through the
complexities of all of these issues and policy options," Sen.
Chuck
Grassley (R-Iowa) said in a statement. "We dropped end-of-life
provisions from consideration entirely because of the way they
could
be misinterpreted and implemented incorrectly."

The Finance Committee is the only congressional committee not to
report out a preliminary healthcare bill before the August
congressional recess, but is expected to unveil its proposal
shortly
after Labor Day.

Grassley said that bill would hold up better compared to proposals
crafted in the House, which he asserted were "poorly cobbled
together."

"The bill passed by the House committees is so poorly cobbled
together
that it will have all kinds of unintended consequences, including
making taxpayers fund healthcare subsidies for illegal
immigrants,"
Grassley said. The veteran Iowa lawmaker said the end-of-life
provision in those bills would pay physicians to "advise patients
about end-of-life care and rate physician quality of care based on
the
creation of and adherence to orders for end-of-life care.

"Maybe others can defend a bill like the Pelosi bill that leaves
major
issues open to interpretation, but I can't," Grassley added.

What a shame. People will end up on ventilators unable to talk for
their
final
days.

i have been laggardly in setting down my preferences and appointing a
surrogate to speak for me if I cannot.

I want to appoint one of my sons who has medical training and would
of all my children best understand the issues and choices in any
illness. And who also operates largely from cool reason and not
the emotion of the moment.




Good for you Rita.

My husband and I filled out living wills and DNR forms when we did our
regular wills.

Ending up being brain dead and tube fed is a nightmare that we all need
to
try and avoid, and without proper directives that can happen all too
easily.

Why is it a nightmare, all a person has to do is fill out the forms
provided my Hospitals and in some states a form to make it legal so a
EMS won't revive you. You don't need the "death panel" that. You
don't need insurance either. Hell, you don't even need a pot to piss
in. Apparently they let you do it, so no big deal.



You would be amazed how many people do not have this paperwork in place
before they lose their proverbial "marbles" and get taken to a hospital
in
some state of confusion. Then they CANNOT sign because they aren't of
sound mind. Then hopefully you have some relative picked out as a
health
care proxy beforehand, and THEY are stuck trying to figure out what the
heck
you wanted and how.

There is no "death panel" ..... but counseling people about end of life
issues is very important, and the health care bill is essentially
insuring
that YOU choose what you want to happen in that circumstance. The bill
is
insuring that the gov't will COVER that fee for that consultation with
your
own doctor! It isn't making any decisions for you, it is just saying
that
if you want to talk to your doctor about it, the fee is covered!

Of course if you go to a hospital fully conscious and in sound mind, then
you can decide for yourself, but you had better not count on it.
Everybody
is going to die sometime, and us older people need to think about this
eventuality. I was amazed at how many people in my high school class
are
now deceased, and I am not THAT old! (don't we all say that?)

How many times do you think an elderly person is taken to the hospital
unconscious? Wouldn't YOU like to have some sort of legal paperwork in
place that assures you of getting the treatment you want?

For some they want every possible effort made to keep them alive no
matter
what. As for me, I said it in the post you replied to. Being brain
dead
and tube fed is a horrible thing. I know I don't want that, and I have
signed paperwork in place so that my kids are aware of it.

Terry Schaivo round 2? I think NOT! Not this gal!

Nor me.

But the point is, if you want every possible measure taken to keep
you breathing, you can say so in your directive. Your wishes will
then be honored.

Terry Schiavo did not have a living will and so the various players
argued among themselves over what they thought she would have wanted.

She couldn't sign a form or indicate in any way what she wanted, as
Jim. E. assumes everyone can do.

Where did I assume that. There you go again reading crap into things
that I never posted. I didn't say anything about Terry Schiavo not
having a Living Will. I will say if she would have signed one and all
the paperwork all that notoriety would not have happened. Yes, she
should have.

Evelyn said: "My husband and I filled out living wills and DNR forms
when we did our regular wills. Ending up being brain dead and tube fed
is a nightmare that we all need to try and avoid, and without proper
directives that can happen all too easily."

They are the same words in the post you replied to saying I assumed
Schaiavo could sign a form. Everybody 18 years old and older has the
right to sign a Living Will and other advance directives. That doesn't
mean dead persons, or comatose persons.

This thread isn't about Schaiavo, but there is a very interesting
article about it that more people should read, but only with an open
mind, which several here don't have.

Now back to the thread with a few more words, Finance Committee to
drop end-of-life provision. Even if it wouldn't have been dropped,
that bill or any of these bills should not be passed until it is clear
what is going to be in the final outcome. Health care reform has been
needed for a long time and it should not be crammed down everyone's
throat overnight. It won't hurt to slow down and do this right so
that the people know what is and is not in the bill that will
eventually become law. Right now people don't trust Obama no further
than they can throw him, and don't fling that crap most people want
Obama's bill. Over 60% say no to this stuff he is proposing. He
doesn't even know for sure what is in it.



That is ClusterFox 'news' BS again. There are actually more in favor of
it than against it. The against faction is just more unruly, ignorant,
noisy, and obnoxious...... (as usual), and making a partisan issue out of
something that absolutely ought to be non partisan. At least y'all gave up
wasting perfectly good teabags.

And by the way...... as I understand it, Medicare ALREADY covers the cost of
getting end of life directives in place.
You are the one who commented on a post of mine. I already said it was
in place. The section of bill (section 1233 describes "advanced care
planning consultation" as between the individual and a "practitioner,"
described as a physician, a nurse practitioner or a physician's
assistant. It doesn't say what they are to consult about, who these
practitioner are, (are they Doctors, NP, or an PA of the patients
choosing or is it going to be a government appoint bureaucrat? There
are a lot of questions to be answered before any of this is voted on.
Right now all it proves it that the mental mental faculties of the
people who support this are lacking or there is some agenda that they
are unwilling to share with the public. Do you always vote or buy
anything you have doubts about.

The left is more unruly, ignorant, noisy, and obnoxious.....(as
usual), and making a partisan issue out of something that should be
bipartisan. So far it looks like no tea bags have been wasted.

Section 1233 of the bill, having to do with Medicare, describes
the "advanced care planning consultation" as between the individual (a
spouse and next of kin are not mentioned) and a "practitioner,"
described as a physician, a nurse practitioner or a physician's
assistant.


Now isn't that a riot? All that
fuss over something that has been in place for a looooooong time, but you
righties never even noticed before, until your leaders (Beck, Hannity,
Limbaugh and other pundits) tell you to jump, and you say how high! :-)

Almost forgot, you and demeter or whatever her name, are about the
most obnoxious persons in this group with Hal running a close third.
You people never have a clue what is really happening but just spew a
lot of crap, although Hal does read some but doesn't get his fact
straight. Rita does do research and knows what she is talking about,
but she spin it to suit her own agenda, which most people are always
going to do, but you, dementia and Hal win the prize for being the
most obnoxious.


Sorry you aren't a fan, but then I wouldn't much want you either.

--

Evelyn

"Even as a mother protects with her life her only child, So with a boundless heart let one cherish all living beings." --Sutta Nipata 1.8

.

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