Re: California Court says English-only tests OK in schools


"Alan Lichtenstein" <arl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:

"Alan Lichtenstein" <arl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:


"Josh Rosenbluth" <jrosenbluth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:


"Did it cross your mind that those who support bilingual education
honestly believe such programs are more succcessful in producing
English fluency?"

wups...you definitely lost me on this one. As I understand those
words, such a supporter believes that a student who goes through K-12
speaking/reading/writing only in - say - Spanish in such a bilingual
education program is upon graduation from high school fluent in
English? Do I have that right? It is my understanding in such
bilingual programs that the non-English speaking students pursue a
course in their own language equivalent to and separate from the
English one. It is not the case that such students take the same
courses both in their own language and in English. Do I have the
right understanding?

No. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilingual_education#United_States


hmmm...I see. My misunderstanding. So of the four kinds of bilingual
programs defined, I presume that you refer to transitional bilingual
education. Should this be the case, where is the established track
record that such programs are indeed successful so that graduating high
school seniors in fact are English literate? Where is the data that
supports the belief that such programs in fact "...are more succcessful
in producing English fluency"? Allow me to make clear that I am not
saying that such programs are successful or unsuccessful. I - not being
an educator - do not know. But I sure would like to know what the facts
are as opposed to what the beliefs are.

Larry, I can only speak from my limited experience. We had bilingual
classes in biology in Korean, Chinese and Spanish. Each class followed
the same curriculum mainly because it was state mandated and because
there was s standard state examination at the end of each year, called
the Regents Examination that students needed to pass in order to receive
credit towards meeting those graduation requirements. Tests were given
in English, Korean and Chinese. In all the years I was an assistant
principal, the Chinese and Korean students, taking their examination in
those languages consistently scored well ABOVE the averages for the
English language examination, and those taking the examination in Spanish
consistently scored BELOW those averages.

So what's the conclusion? The language is really irrelevant; the real
determinator is group values and culture. I found no particular evidence
that bilingual education either hastened or retarded the learning of
English, nor did it have any real effect on subject matter achievement.
Given that, the cost of bilingual education could be greatly reduced by
using a rapid immersion similar to what Israel offers to new immigrants,
not conversant in Hebrew. then these students would go into regular
classes, taught in English. Bilingual education is a sham to pander to
certain cultural groups; nothing more.
.
Thanks, Alan. Interesting observations.

For my part, I can contribute that our eight year old grandson attends a
Japanese immersion school in the Los Angeles area - the only one, I
think, in California at the K-5 grade level. There has been a scattering
of Caucasians, a number of native born Japanese, and some African
Americans in his classes from K-2. One of the more interesting
classmates is a girl born in China adopted by Caucasian parents. I can't
speak for his classmates, but my born/raised-in-Japan wife finds his
Japanese - even his accent - to be excellent, both written and spoken.
He can write/read in hiragana (one of the two phonetic written forms of
Japanese) and even in the more simple kanji - the Japanese pictographs.
And having received some handwritten letters as well as one email (he
recently was given a second hand computer) from him, I find his English
to be more than adequate and have commended him on his writing. Our
son - his father - knows a bit of Japanese, but cannot conduct any kind
of conversation in that language. Our daughter-in-law - his mother - was
born and raised until she was five or so in Korea and understands no
Japanese except for some phrases she's picked up here and there. Both,
of course, are illiterate in Japanese.

I recall what our daughter-in-law shared with us after his first day in
kindergarden - the teacher spoke entirely in Japanese that day and the
grandson came home with the observation that he understood not a word of
what the teacher said.

The game plan the school district has is to continue the immersion route
through grade 8, at the end of which the students embark on all English
classes at the high school level. All indications are, according to our
son and his wife, that these students tend to be very successful at the
high school level. They are both very pleased with the achievements of
their son not only in the Japanese facet also in the traditional academic
ones, including English. The daughter-in-law...a former grammar school
teacher herself...is amazed at the parental support/involvement at the
school. I have the impression that entry to this particular school is
highly prized, with families outside the school district wanting their
kids enrolled. The school is a public one and I don't quite understand
how the school can admit out of district students. Demand is so great
that a lottery system with a waiting list has been established at the
kindergarden level.

Just one anecdotal data point, of course....but observing our grandson
wield his way through this school leads me to think that the immersion
route is/can be very successful. I need to ask his parents how the
born-in-Japan kids are doing relative to English. In two years we'll see
the granddaughter embark down the same road. The anticipation a number
of years from now is having the grandson and granddaughter conversing in
Japanese with each other with neither of their parents understanding what
is being said. :-)

Interesting anecdotal description. I for one am in favor of the Israeli
plan, which focuses solely on language skills with the goal of making
enrollees literate in the shortest possible time, generally six months to
a year, as far as I know. Then, being literate, regular schooling can
take place with no additional support needed. It is this kind of support
I am in favor of for students needing to become literate in English
rapidly, as the cost is minimal and the effects achieved in the shortest
possible time.

One problem with America is that we don't make our students conversant in
any other language, other than English. Second language instruction in
America is al but a farce, despite the fact that educators in those
disciplines continue to push for more. Second language educators have,
several years ago, adopted a conversation approach to teaching language,
which IMHO, is far superior to the way I learned a second language when I
studied it in school. Although I am fairly comfortable reading and
writing French, as I do recall much of my vocabulary and grammar, I have
difficulty conversing in it, simply because my ear is attuned to American
pronunciations rather than French. I can speak the language fairly
decently, but when someone speaks to me, I have to both translate the
vocabulary and the pronunciation into English, slowing my ability. That
older learning methodology has now been replaced by one that relies more
on thinking in the second language rather than on vocabulary and grammar.
I think the current approach is far superior.

What leads me to support this belief is my own personal experience. My
grandparents spoke Yiddish, and while I never spoke it, I can relatively
easily understand a good deal of it when someone speaks it. Mainly
because I heard it regularly and became attuned to the particular
pronunciations. Even though I never had formal instruction in it.

hmmm...your comments bring to mind the Army Language School located in
Monterey, California, now known as the Defense Language Institute Foreign
Language Center. It has a very good record of turning out students
proficient in a number of different languages in a rather short period of
time. As I understand, the basic approach is one of immersion with only the
language being studied used in the classroom.

Here is the DLIFL website:
http://www.dliflc.edu/index.html

And here is Wikipedia's take on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Language_Institute

Here is a description from a student's point of view
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/education/a/dliarticle.htm



.

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