Re: Goodbye GM - a brilliant article

"Thumper" <jaylsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:no6825d24li78107t798e7f9au48s4dimn@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:28:50 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Sordo " <sordo @rec-dep.com> wrote in message
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:57:49 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Rita" <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:20:50 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"El Castor" <No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:32:18 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"Werner" <whetzner@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Jun 1, 8:14 am, "Evelyn" <evelyn.r...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Goodbye, GM
by Michael Moore

June 1, 2009

... I request an honest and sincere consideration of the following
suggestions:

1. Just as President Roosevelt did after the attack on Pearl Harbor,
the
President must tell the nation that we are at war and we must
immediately
convert our auto factories to factories that build mass transit
vehicles
and
alternative energy devices. ...
...

3. Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this
country
in
the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of
its
first
bullet train this year. ...

4. Initiate a program to put light rail mass transit lines in all
our
large
and medium-sized cities. Build those trains in the GM factories. And
hire
local people everywhere to install and run this system.

5. For people in rural areas not served by the train lines, have the
GM
plants produce energy efficient clean buses.

...

7. Transform some of the empty GM factories to facilities that build
windmills, solar panels and other means of alternate forms of
energy.
We
need tens of millions of solar panels right now. And there is an
eager
and
skilled workforce who can build them.

8. Provide tax incentives for those who travel by hybrid car or bus
or
train. Also, credits for those who convert their home to alternative
energy.

9. To help pay for this, impose a two-dollar tax on every gallon of
gasoline. This will get people to switch to more energy saving cars
or
to
use the new rail lines and rail cars the former autoworkers have
built
for
them.

Well, that's a start. ...

So can we survive our own Titanic in all the Flint Michigans of this
country. 60% of GM is ours. I think we can do a better job.

Yours,
Michael Moore


Build it and force them to come. What is brilliant about that?

I live in the capital district of NY. We have buses that drive around
empty or almost empty most of the time. For ever fare dollar paid by
riders taxpayers have to pay another 7 dollars so this can keep
operating. You may call that brilliant. I call it a monumental waste.

Japan is relatively small country wich is densely populated. Mass
transit better lends itself to these conditions. The US is entirely
different.

Besides, the country is broke. Instead of bullet trains we are more
likely to want to spend our remaining income on heating oil than a
Michael Moore fantasy. Once we can no longer afford to buy Japanese
cars even Japanese may no longer be able to afford their own bullet
trains.

***, maybe our Dear Leader can start another major war to ramp up
business and get the populace to forget its troubles.


*************

Werner, I too live not too far from Albany area, in fact I am closer
to
the
first capital of NY state, which I am sure you know what that is. :-)

In this general area, buses are not really practical, I agree. We
have
some buses, but what we really need is high speed rail for distance
travel.
It would make travel from Albany to NY city much more practical.
That
would be a blessing to all the upstate communities.

Our entire modern lifestyle has evolved around the automobile.... the
personal automobile. If we had more mass transportation that was
well
designed, and well planned, people would walk more, use less gas, and
not
have to maintain a road worthy vehicle.

It would make buses more profitable. Right now if I didn't have a
personal
automobile, I would be in deep trouble because EVERYwhere I go to the
store,
to the doctor, the dentist, where ever, would be imposible to get to
by
anything other than an expensive taxicab.

By the same token it would not be practical for any bus company to set
up
regular routes in this area. Our entire system needs to change.
Rails
might be the way to go.

Afraid not. Mass transit is the way to go, but only if it makes
economic sense. There may be such a thing, but off hand I am not aware
of a single mass transit system in the United States that pays it's
own way. They all need massive infusions of tax money -- some much
worse than others, but none are in good shape. The same is not true in
parts of the world with much higher population densities -- like the
Tokyo metropolitan area or Hong Kong. Tokyo has 10 privately operated
commuter rail systems. They exist because of a huge population density
and a ridership that justifies the cost of building and operating such
an expensive system. Out here in California we very foolishly passed a
bond issue to build a bullet train between San Francisco and Los
Angeles. If you have made the trip by car, you know that in the inland
area where the train will run, between SF and LA there are hundreds of
square miles of absolutely nothing. "Cities" like Crows Landing,
population 1,406. It will be a financial disaster and a drain on the
finances of every Californian. Very likely it will prove much cheaper
to operate a fleet of subsidized stretch limos shuttling back and
forth between SF and LA.



They need to do the right studies and determine where the best place to
build such a train would be. And it needs to pay for itself. Every
public transportation should be priced to pay for itself. Tax
infusions
into these companies that charge people too little to ride, is insanity.
People should travel less and only go when they can afford to.

People should travel less? Make your case for that, Evelyn. Seems to
me the more people travel on public transit the more likely costs per
person will decrease. The ideal is to provide transit systems that
make using them more attractive and less costly than getting
everyplace by car. So that the system will attract many who now
depend on cars to get around.

Why is it insane to make sure everyone who does
not own a car can afford to get to a job, a shopping center, etc.?
Even if some public funds are used to provide that? I guess you have
never lived in a city like New York City where if everyone owned
a car there would be no frigging place to park them and traffic would
be so dense as to bring the city to a standstill. If NYC has to
subsidize public transport it is because there is no other solution
that would not unduly impact lower income folks. And same in countless
other communities as well.

Also your view conflicts with the need for a greener America and far
less dependence on fossil fuels -- need I even point that out?


Rita,

Public transportation is a business, not a right. Why should any
business
have to operate at a loss and taxpayers pick up the slack? It is a
matter
of adjusting to it.

I would love to travel more but I can't afford to. So I stay home. I
see
it as a simple matter.

I would love to live in the south of France. I can't afford it so I live
upstate NY.

NYC is no different. If one cannot afford to live there and cannot
afford
to travel around there, one can always move, and indeed they SHOULD move
if
they can't afford it.

I have lots of friends who live in NYC. When they are retired they often
find that it is too expensive to live there. We could argue for hours
about rent stabilized apartments and lots of other unfairnesses that slant
the cost of living in favor of some at the expense of others.

Why should everyone else pay for others to ride?



Are you becoming a conservative?


There are some areas where I am conservative and always have been. There
are some areas where I am as progressive as anyone you have ever seen.

Business is meant to be for profit. They need to plan for that and charge
for it accordingly.

I do absolutely believe that medical care for all, is a RIGHT and we all
should pay for it.
I believe that social security should be expanded to cover everyone, and we
all should pay for it.

I do not believe that free transportation for everybody is in the same
category.

In the case of elderly people, the disabled, kids going to school by public
transportation, that is different and subsidies may need to be in place to
justify.

Everybody else should pay full fare.


It can't be done. Nearly every road, train, bus system, subway has
been subsidized in one way or another. Your way would require
private capital to build a railroad and people pay full fares to ride
it or what? It has long been recognized that public transportation
needs to be good for the PUBLIC, not just those with money.
Thumper


Why not? Investors would invest in the infrastructure and then when the system is in place, the fares would pay for it, and the investors would get dividends..... just like any other business. Why should it be different?

--

Evelyn

"Even as a mother protects with her life her only child, So with a boundless heart let one cherish all living beings." --Sutta Nipata 1.8

.

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