Re: Choice electrician's apprenticeship job opens up on the North Slope (high school diploma required)

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:07:51 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Rita wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Rita wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:36:36 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Evelyn wrote:
"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Evelyn wrote:
"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Rita wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:01:23 -0500, "Hal Hanig"
<halhanig@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Evelyn wrote:
"Thumper" <jaylsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:28:57 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Thumper I have known many people who were not college educated
but who made
very nice money and had successful business and career in their
lives. It
isn't the only way to go.

Just for laughs, I, OTOH, have known many people who were college
educated and were in largest part abysmal failures. I laughingly
label them "educated nincompoops" and try to avoid publically
identifying them.....because they know who they are.
(^v^)))))

Hal
What?s the point of going to school or trying hard? Just become a
reality show contestant or pull some dumb stunt to get attention and
you can get whatever job you want. And that is true because Joe the
Plumber just got a job as a war
correspondent. Some demented right wing website is sending him to
Israel for 10 days to report on the war. I kid you not.

With any luck he'll land instead in the middle of the Gaza Strip.
All Hamas needs to know is to look for the guy who looks like
Mr. Clean.

Or maybe he will become Joe the Hostage.
It is sad. Kids see a few individuals strike it rich on reality TV
or in sports but they don't understand the odds against them. They
grow up dreaming dreams, but don't have a clue about what the first
step might be.

The hardest job that I had with my kids was teaching them synthesis.
How do you find the steps to reach a goal? I wish that teaching it
was required in high school. It is an important life skill.

I am especially impatient with parents who convince their kids that
Algebra or Trig is difficult or that it has no real world
application. What can they be thinking? For me, mathematics was a
gateway. It was a way into a whole new world and I couldn't get
enough of it.
Islander, there are plenty of people who did it differently..... and
were successful. My grandkids are seemingly ready to follow the
traditional path like you did. They love science and are brilliant
boys. But not everyone goes the same way. We do need plumbers and
carpenters, mechanics and electricians and techie types, etc. etc. etc.

Yes, and we also need philosophers, historians, artists, and
musicians. I am only pleading that parents not tell their kids that
some subjects are difficult or irrelevant. My pet peeve is
discouraging kids from learning mathematics and especially high school
subjects like Algebra, Trig or Geometry. I have done plumbing,
carpentry, mechanics and electrical wiring. Use of these basic math
skills gives one an advantage over those who cannot. Have you ever
seen a carpenter work out the angles needed to build a dormer, for
example?
Yes, and I also saw a mason build steps that no two ended up at the same
height! Math is really important in almost any job. Strange to say
all these years I have worked in accounting type jobs, but without a
calculator I am nearly a cripple. I can still do things manually, but
it takes me forever, and I still check it carefully with a calculator.
Math was never my best subject. I am an artist, and a good BS-er. :-)
My son is as stubborn as I am and we had an interesting experience early
in his education. His school was experimenting with the New Math and
rather than simply memorizing the addition and multiplication tables, he
was struggling with number systems, different bases and some very
fundamental stuff that I didn't encounter until college level. He
didn't understand why he couldn't simply use a calculator.

We compromised by allowing him to use the calculator to check his results.

I admire anyone who can be an artist. For me, it is far too subjective.
What is good, what is not? Who knows? Way too uncertain for me.
Mathematics is solid. What is true is forever true. No uncertainty.
One can depend on mathematics!

And, I acknowledge that this says a great deal about my insecurities!
Artists are driven by an inner vision -- the great ones. Society
makes the judgment on what is good and what is not and many artists
fail to get recognition in their lifetimes only to be appreciated
much later. Look at Vincent Van Gogh. There are no absolute
standards on what constitutes great art. Which could be frustrating
for those not compelled to produce art anyway to satisfy themselves.
Fine for those who can afford it, but most of us need to support
themselves and their family. His brother supported him.

By practical standards, Van Gogh was a very dysfunctional person,
probably mentally ill. I would certainly not describe him as someone
who enjoyed his life. We know that he was compelled to produce art, but
we don't know if it was to satisfy himself or to satisfy some inner
compulsion, perhaps a form of hypergraphia. He died by his own hand at
age 37 after painting for only 10 years.

Not a role model that I would recommend!

It is not about being a role model. You are far too literal at times.
What matters with Van Gogh, is that insane and unable to support
himself, he produced works of art that have given millions of people
great pleasure. He could be nothing other than what he was. He was
driven to paint and we are all luckier for that drive.

Artists have always needed sponsors to support them. People who are
willing to take a chance on their genius.

The general public's idea of and taste in art is on the whole banal.
No joy there for the creative genius breaking new boundaries in art.
Eventually, decades or centuries later, their work may be mass
produced and find its way into some living rooms. Purchased perhaps
because the colors match the living room color scheme.

Sure, but here the topic is whether or not Levi would be better advised
to finish high school - at least that is the topic that I have been
addressing.
The topic was him getting fired from the apprenticeship.


It was a stupid move to send him up to the North Slope to
be an electrician's apprentice.
I don't agree.


It would be equally stupid to advise
him to follow whatever teenage dream that might pop into his immature
mind if that meant not getting his diploma.



For Christ's sake. You can't MAKE him get a diploma. Should his
punishment be unemployment for the rest of his life?

Thumper
I can appreciate what Van Gogh accomplished despite his handicaps. I
can also appreciate the possibility that his accomplishment may have
been due to his handicap. Either way, if Levi somehow got it into his
head that he wanted to become another Van Gogh, I would advise him to
finish high school first.

.

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