Re: Franklin Delano Obama



"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:f-udnYNMwpFI1ILUnZ2dnUVZ_q3inZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Evelyn wrote:


"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:BsWdnVR7erW2kYLUnZ2dnUVZ_vGdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Evelyn wrote:


"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:SvudnQPoCoU9b4PUnZ2dnUVZ_vzinZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Evelyn wrote:

<Jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:05psh41ctsnmg5c4gcaevhi31d4vllf5og@xxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:49:31 -0500, emily2@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:18:09 -0800, Rita <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:45:11 -0500, emily2@xxxxxxxxxx wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:38:02 -0800 (PST), Werner <whetzner@xxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Nov 14, 6:43 am, Rumpelstiltskin

Health is one of Americans' biggest worries, maybe
the biggest worry of all, unless they're as lucky as I was,
but the cost of health care is no worry at all to people in
most other civilized countries. Why tolerate such a
sword of Damocles hanging over people's heads when
we can see in other places how to avoid such stress?
Isn't civilization supposed to make things better, not
scarier and more savage?


Misconception. Everybody doesn't have it in reality. I spend summers
in Canada. Common stories in media are about health care failures.
Health care in Canada is about as available as good public education
in the States.

It seems to me that the question of health care, no matter how it's
funded, has to confront the issue of who gets it? There are a
plethora of expensive tests to be had these days, surgical procedures
like heart transplants that were simply a dream a few decades ago, and
drugs which cure, or keep at bay, diseases which used to kill quickly.
It seems impossible that any society could afford for absolutely
everyone to have absolutely everything. And there's the bigger
question of who decides who gets what.

So far, it appears that one of the results of the increased efficacy
of modern medicine is lots of old people, a good many of whom are to
the strapped-in-the-wheelchair-drooling-in-the-lap stage, which no one
admits to wanting to live to. It costs a fortune to keep someone in a
nursing home.

Does anyone really believe that a plan giving everyone prompt access
to every medical procedure is even possible?

How do you separate out those who should receive it and who should
not? Who decides?

That was my question. I don't have an answer. Having the insurance
companies decide, which is the current answer, isn't the greatest
plan, but then neither is having it decided by a bunch of government
bureaucrats.

Politics will come to dominate their decisions. Consider how
'helpful' some of the government workers you have encountered at
county, state, and federal level. Did they care about you or your
problem? Not always, but I recently met one at SS who was really a
peach. She was so nice and helpful so I wrote a letter of thanks to
the SS administration identifying her as so helpful.

But, she was exception.


If you are talking about the most extreme
treatments that is one thing, but if you are talking about a standard
of care that most medical professionals agree upon it is quite
another.

In any system, someone is making those decisions. While it's
insurance companies, I suspect that if profits fell below a certain
point, some of that care which we think of as standard might become a
bit harder to get their blessing for. If it's a government run
system, it's still possible that there might have to be some
rationing.

Those drooling in wheelchairs really can't be helped except
to make them comfortable, now can they? That is an extreme example
and not helpful in a discussion of how to manage health care for all.

Jeez, I'm sorry. Do I get two demerits, one for not being helpful and
one for deviating from the subject which had already deviated from
that proclaimed by the thread title?

Need to keep our elderly close and be sure to represent them so they
don't become victims of such cruel thinking.

I recall someone said years ago here that as we care so little about
life of the unborn that someday that consideration would be extended
to elderly and others not deemed worthy. That day is here already for
some folks here.


The elderly are already alive and vulnerable. They have lived long and (probably) productive lives. They deserve dignity at sunset. It is a different thing than not wanting to make a baby and ending it before it really has begun.


Has anyone here had any experience with the Eden Alternative approach to elder care? http://www.edenalt.org/ This was founded by Dr. William Thomas who is an advocate for more personalized treatment of our seniors.

I've been looking at the needs of our elder population here (we have twice the percentage of population over 65 than the mainland) and have encountered a difficult problem. Specifically, our older residents wait far too long to get help, primarily because they don't want to leave their homes. When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network.

William Thomas was also responsible for starting the Green House Project which was developed as an alternative to nursing homes by creating small facilities built around a home-like environment with a maximum of 10 residents. 34 of these have been built around the nation under the stewardship of Impact Capital and they have a goal of building 50.
http://www.ncbcapitalimpact.org/default.aspx?id=146--



Sounds wonderful. In practice it is very hard to put it into action. You can't buy love. You can buy nursing home attendants, but it is often a low-paying thankless job. That doesn't always attract the best of the best. Big nursing home, little nursing home, whatever, it often comes down to a money issue. They want to make money too, and it always comes down to the cheapest way to operate, and hopefully to give the patient a decent deal, but to make as much of your own money out of it. Seldom are these conflicting aims a good mix.

Elderly people are not lonely for the company of another person, but usually they are lonely for a time in their lives when they were able to be autonomous. You can't buy that, unfortunately. They are lonely for the ones who died. You can never bring them back. They are lonely for feeling productive again. Coloring books, bingo and crafts don't always cut it.

Often elderly people don't want to bathe and can't smell themselves. They also often need supervision due to memory issues. Nobody wants to be supervised or told they need a bath. They forget to eat and need to be coaxed. They don't always drink enough liquids. Nobody has the endless time to sit with them and chat all day in any facility, unless they are hired as a private duty attendant. Some can afford to have those.

I went through all this recently with my mother in law who developed alzheimers. We took care of her here at home for almost 4 years, which should have been an optimum experience for her, but because of her illness, she was always confused. The two of us worked caring for her night and day, and we were both completely burnt out and exhausted. We bathed and fed and cared for her like she was our little baby. Finally she couldn't walk anymore and we were forced to place her in a local nursing home. It was basically a good place, but when your mind is gone, and you miss it, no place can fill that void.

--
Best Regards,
Evelyn


It is a very serious problem, especially in the case of dementia. There are all the problems that you described and more. Often the only care giver is a spouse and burnout is almost inevitable.

The Green House Projects are all non-profit, but labor costs dominate. They claim an average cost of $242 per day which seems very expensive, but is less costly than hiring 24/7 coverage. Locally, we have state legislation that allows for Adult Family Homes. This law is intended to assure a minimum level of training for those who want to bring seniors into their homes and allows up to six residents. We have one on this island and a new one built especially for that purpose on Lopez Island. They charge $4,500 per month and I don't see how they can cover costs.

A very tough problem.



There is no way to pretty it up. Old age is awful. There are aches, pains, loneliness, ineffectual efforts, loss of loved ones, kids who love you, but have grown up and have their own lives. There is sickness, physical limitation, and there are few solutions, and all of those have their drawbacks. One cannot turn back the clock or solve the problems.

The most important thing one can have is some relative who will take it upon themself to visit you, see to it that you are not abused or neglected, bring you out for something to eat once in a while, or bring you a treat in and come tell you all the family gossip. All too few families realize that you can't just dump the old folks and think that because the bills are paid that there is nothing else to do.

The very best thing you can do for your old age is to cultivate a good attitude, to be happy with little, and to research places in your area before you need to go there.

My 90 year old brother likes to say, "Getting old is not for sissies!"


Wow.... 90!

My dad is 95 and he is sick of all the health issues, though if the truth be told, he's not really in all that bad shape.
--
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn

(Our) enemies are not man. They are intolerance, fanaticism, dictatorship, cupidity, hatred and discrimination, which lie within the heart of man." -- Thich Nhat Hanh

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Relevant Pages

  • Re: Franklin Delano Obama
    ... Common stories in media are about health care failures. ... When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Franklin Delano Obama
    ... "Islander" wrote in message ... Common stories in media are about health care failures. ... When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Franklin Delano Obama
    ... Common stories in media are about health care failures. ... When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Franklin Delano Obama
    ... "Islander" wrote in message ... Common stories in media are about health care failures. ... When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Franklin Delano Obama
    ... Common stories in media are about health care failures. ... When they finally realize that they are in trouble, their only alternative is to leave the island for some dubious future in a mainland nursing home, removed from their friends and support network. ... The Green House Projects are all non-profit, but labor costs dominate. ...
    (soc.retirement)