Re: Who's Up, Who's Down In The Veepstakes


"al Guacamole" <aet@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:89401f56-5d98-4ed3-84d4-f03c054c7a1d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Aug 17, 10:59 am, Rita <R...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2008 13:21:34 -0700 (PDT), al Guacamole <a...@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Aug 16, 4:22 pm, Ron Peterson <r...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:27 pm, al Guacamole <a...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

I have never said that she "endorsed" Clinton. I said that she has
"supported" Clinton. For all we know, she has probably "supported"
other candidates as well. Isn't there a difference here to you?? Or
is
"support" the same as "endorse" to you? I don't disagree that she
has
said other things. The link you have is great because she is
spelling
out exactly what she supports in Clinton's agenda. OTOH Rita is
saying
without proof that Fiorina has never said that she has supported
Clinton.

I checked the records and Fiorina didn't make any contribution to
Clinton's campaign.

Regarding responsibility of a CEO, no one debates that. However, to
blame her because other people make a scapegoat out of her when your
stock was saved because of the changes that she brought to HP, in my
opinion, is perpetuating an injustice.

She didn't save my stock. IIRC, I sold at a loss.

--
Ron

Ron, if you will recall I said that your loss would have been even
greater had HP not survived. Think like a penny stock? If you don't
appreciate that she did save the company but got punished for doing
that, then you really don't understand what the whole issue is about
here. The bitter pill for survival needs a scapegoat and Fiorina was
it.

Think about how little you got for the Agilent stock when it was
separated from HP if you don't believe this. That portion of the
company could have dragged the rest of the company down the tubes. Do
you know what happened to Agilent? It sure seemed ripe for acquisition
in my opinion. In her book, Fiorina discusses her decision not to save
the rest of HP rather than cutting it off as she did. She had been
great in restructuring and reorganizing failing company leadership in
her previous work. But the problem with HP was too extensive to fix
and the relative independence of the different company organizational
units meant that each unit would have fought and delayed company
reform and changes.

Seeing as how she was fired for the changes that she brought, it seems
to me that her assessment was correct. I've heard Jack Welsh, former
GE CEO, say that her only mistake was not taking the Chairmanship of
the Board to insure her not being fired. That's what he would have
done. Seeing as how Welsh paid himself so much for his work at GE, you
can probably understand the wisdom of his words. He probably fired or
laid off much more people than Fiorina ever did.

Regarding contributions to a candidate, since when is that required
for support???? I have supported mostly all of the Democratic
presidential candidates, but I didn't contribute to all of them. I
think that you will just have to believe me when I say that I have
even supported Obama as well as Kucinich, etc. Just as we need to
believe Fiorina when she says that she has supported Clinton.... In
fact, support for Clinton could even have been in 2006 when Clinton
was not yet an announced candidate. It wouldn't hurt to check
Clinton's supporters in her Senatorial campaigns as well. I think that
you give up too soon.

And you gave up before you began to verify your statement with a lot
of lame excuses about your old computer and download time, etc.
And your inability to figure out how to use Google.

You also failed to answer why I should even try. I have been just
"refining" the parameters of the method of verification. It isn't a
lame excuse. I just don't know much about checking these facts because
there usually is no need to do this. It's just my opinion. It's not a
court of law, and we aren't doing research here. People usually don't
accuse me of lying without proof of that-- except for trolls like
Larry. Even Rumple thought that I might be confused rather than lying.

Why Alvin Tako - now I get to accuse you of misquoting me! How is that for
a change! Please - my words where I accused you of lying. I never said
that you lie. I do believe I said that you do believe what you say as per
that unique world of yours - and that...Alvin...is not at all saying that
you lie. You, I repeat, do believe what you believe is true in that world
of yours where everything is as it is because *you* say it is. That is why
in your world there are strange things like the ethanol process not
involving CO2, the Hawaii constitution prohibiting hydroelectric power,
Admiral Yamamoto being present aboard the Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl
Harbor, McCain doing erectile dysfunction ads in front of a Dole fruit
display, etc etc etc. And if you need concrete references to any of these
bizzare occurrences in that world of yours, ask me which one and I'll dig
into the archives and retrieve your very words as I have in the past and as
you know I can once again.

And I also say that you do no more than spew words, words, and nothing but
vacuous, meaningless, empty, high sounding words - to wit: you have yet to
supply any kind of verifiable fact as per Fiorina politically supporting
Clinton. You have done nothng but dish out such clouds of words in this
thread, offering not one bit - not one iota - of verifiable fact of Fiorina
politically supporting Clinton. Even here in this pious sounding post of
yours where you plea "I just don't know much about checking these facts
because there usually is no need to do this. It's just my opinion. It's not
a court of law, and we aren't doing research here." is no more than another
cloud of words. Fisrt and foremost - over the years we've tangled I have
consistently asked you to substantiate these "opinions" of yours to at
establish that such "opinions" are grounded on facts...just as consistently
you have failed to do so. And if your excuse for not doing so is that you
don't know how to do so, then the solution - kiddo - is very, very, very
simple: LEARN!

As things stand, with you not willing/not able to base your "opinions" on
facts the best that can be said of your "opinions" is that they are based in
that strangely singular world of yours that is so different from ours. You
see, Alvin, in our world the ethanol process does involve CO2, the Hawaii
constitution does not prohibit hydroelectric power, Admiral Yamamoto was not
aboard the Japanese fleet that attacked Pearl Harbor, and McCain never did
erectile dysfuntion ads, in front of a Dole fruit display or otherwise.
And in our world, Fiorina did not and does not politically support Clinton.

[And Alvin - I did correctly quote you there, did I not? Can't, you know,
have you going around here again falsely accusing me of misquoting you.]


.

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