Re: Obama's Remarks on Retirement Security

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 22:08:08 -0400, "Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

"jim" <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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[Default] On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:16:11 -0400, "Evelyn"
<evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:



"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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Hi Jerry,


"Evelyn" <evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"jim" <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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[Default] On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 06:42:18 -0400, "Evelyn"
<evelyn.ruut@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


(huge snippage for sanitys sake :-)


Hi Jim,

What do you propose to fix the problem of folks looking for jobs,
lost
pensions, health care, greedy CEO's, and all the rest? Don't tell
me
the government or some general thing about we care for them.
Specifically, where is the money coming from? Who is going to pay
more taxes, fees, or have their health care costs increased or
services reduced?


I am no expert by any means. At the risk of sounding like an idiot,
I
will state that I can see a couple of things that stand out in my
view,
but there could be a lot more I don't see.

Taxes on ALL income. Simple. No loopholes for the super-rich, or
big companies to sneak away free.

There is a need for new laws, that control profiteering on necessary
items like oil, drugs, health care. Speculators in such things
absolutely need to be reined in. It is destroying many peoples
personal economy right now.

Nice sentiments, but how do you do that? Diamonds for instance, is
doubled in price from the wholesaler to the retailer. The retailer in
turns doubles their price to the average joe. A super market on the
other hand, works on a very slim margin, marking up their products
very
little from their purchase price. In between, there is a whole host
of
differences.


Diamonds are not necessary to survive. Oil for heat, electricity,
health care, certain food items. There really ought to be some sort
of
control. As I said I am no expert.

Socialism and communism, is an attempt to do just that. Would you like
such a system in this country?




Certainly not! But why should it have to be an all or nothing
proposition?

Communism and socialism are antithetical to a republic and democracy.
They are totally at odds with capitalism and freemarkets. We can and
should have regulation of industries but the things you have proposed
kill the goose that created this economy.

Despite all those who want to try to convince us that the US economy
is dead or that life is horrible. The employment rate is much better
then it was in the 70'.s Inflation and many other measurements are
certainly not what they were in 70's and 80's.

You did have a couple things there that have some merit for
discussion. But, I doubt you really mean what your words meant!
Example was taxes on all income. Do you really mean that everyone
should pay some flat rate on their income or do you support no
taxation for those at bottom of income ladder. What about tax
'credit' for those who are at bottom. Today they pay no income taxes
but get a check from government which is called EITC (a misnomer if
one was ever uttered).

The bottom line Evelyn is that when a government begin increasing
taxes, they stifle economies. The rich will NEVER pay taxes. No
matter what laws are passed, people like Ed Kennedy will inherit his
family compounds worth megamillions of dollars and taxes will be
mnimized. They will create charities the descendents will manage that
will pay out minimal relief to the causes they purport to support.
They will just send money offshore using any number of ruses. An army
of accountants and lawyers insure the rich dodge taxes. When the
government does manage to levy taxes on something - like they did
years ago on those who bought high priced boats - the result is they
killed much of the industry. People just did not buy boats and many
boatyards closed. My guess is they probably managed to have some
trust buy boats overseas in Spain or other places and then use it
primarily in Carib and elsewhere, registering it in Bahama.

People like you and me are the donkeys who can't hide income well and
we pay and pay and pay and will keep paying.

YOu also mentioned greedy CEO's I believe stealing pension funds (some
kind of reference like that I seem to recall). They did it with the
laws passed by Congress. And the Pension Benifit Corp does step in
and pay some reduced pension so all is not lost. Not really much
difference between the government having stolen every penny of SS to
spend elsewhere and what happend to to many companies. Theft in any
case. Had we all been able to have our SS dollars pulled out and put
into conservatively managed accounts like Congressmen and Civil
Service folks do, most folks would have something approaching or well
over half million bucks or so today if they are about our ages!!!!
Really that is what is happening to a great many Civil Service folks
who began their savings in 1983 in Thrift Savings Plan. That is only
25 years. Extend it out to 40 years of working and they will all have
far more then a million or so. Nobody can take their account from
them. It is theirs and they begin using it when they retire. They
can pass it to their children or with good estate planning do a skip
generation trust so no taxes are paid for another 40 or so years!!!!!

But, this kind of program is money Congress can't spend and treat like
a 'trust fund' with promisary notes. But, you know, they are trying
to get their hands on the TSP fund too now that it is the biggest
retirement fund in the world. It was 225 billion dollars in summer of
2007! If it is good enough for Congress, why isn't it good enough for
the rest of us? It is a real retirement program. The reason is
because politicians can't play with the program and treat it like
welfare!! Tim Russert's family will not get his Social Security Trust
Fund. His son is grown and his wife has her own SS. The government
will keep every penny for their own devices. At his age, he and
income, he would have way over million bucks in a secure retirement
account his family could use as they see fit.

There really are other options then socialism.


I am sure there are. I am really quite shamefully ignorant on so many
things. But I do appreciate it when people explain them to me. Of course
you (and the others who have replied in this thread) have made some very
good points. I know there are a lot of people who have lost their pensions
in the last few years and have had to return to work again. I also know
that in todays paper there was a rather sizeable headline which referred to
the pay increases of CEOs of large companies being out of proportion to the
rest of their workers.


Jim is enjoying socialized medicine now.
Thumper
.

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