Re: White Folks

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:26:47 GMT, jim <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[Default] On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:38:41 -0700, El Castor
<No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 16:47:32 GMT, jim <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:40:35 -0400, Thumper <jaylsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:20:07 -0700, El Castor <No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 01:06:05 GMT, jim <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[Default] On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:05:49 -0700, El Castor
<No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:55:25 GMT, jim <jim10293@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

[Default] On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:02:55 -0700, El Castor
<No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:45:55 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Listening to what some black people think about this country, if I were a
white guy, I would be worried, because it seems to me, they place a whole
lot of the blame on their condition on you white folks.....

Maybe you should be worried. At least in the area where I live, Asians
are economically and academically successful, and when it comes to
education and business they are lumped together with Whites as members
of the same privileged class.

I'd feel comfortable with lots of them in my neighborhood. I doubt
Obama's grandmother would feel fearful walking down street and seening
a Asian guy.

As I've previously mentioned, San Francisco's Lowell High caters to
the brightest students. Three Chinese families sued to compel the
school district to admit students based strictly on ability, without
regard to race. They won, and overnight Hispanic enrollment declined,
and new Black enrollment dropped to almost nothing. Three years later
I read a sad lament by a left winger who complained that when she
looked out a window at Lowell she saw nothing but a vast see of White
faces. She couldn't admit, perhaps even to herself, that those faces
were mainly Asian. (-8

There is a reason.

But maybe not the reason you think. Those Asian values of family and
education are (I believe) just a byproduct of intelligence. The
average Chinese, Japanese, or Korean kid or parent is going to be 20%
- 25% smarter than an average black kid or parent.

I don't know and wonder if the spread is that wide. But, the spread
will account for much better results in whatever people decide to take
on.

But, black culture does not value education at all. They don't buy
their kids books or value teaching them to read as kids. There are
great many comparisons.

But, like all immigrants, I notice the first generation that arrives
from Asia will fight like hell to see their kids do well. Asian kids
do very well in school. But, by third generation, it ain't all
peaches and cream Jeff. The motivation to take the hard course is not
there and mediocre result closer to what what the average white
American in course and career paths results.

Also, great difference between different parts of Asia. Philipinos
and Indonesians are not doing as great as those in China, Japan,
Korea. Also, kids in Japan and Taiwan are not all that motivated any
more. Kids hanging out on corner and laying on their asses is very
common and growing in at least those two nations.

Respect for traditional morality in Asia is what the backbone of their
success is from my observation. Wonder what Jim Higgins thinks?

Regardless of generation, Asians are more economically successful than
Blacks. It's an obvious and undeniable fact. I retired from a job as a
network installer and administrator. My co-workers, and class mates in
the frequent classes I took, were largely Asian. Not an accident.
There is an interesting report that I read this morning concerning a
63 year old Israeli mathematician, Avraham Trakhtman, who just solved
a problem that has stumped mathematicians all over the world for the
last 38 years. It's also no coincidence that guy worked in Israel and
not the Congo. I don't mean to be racist,
Yes you do.
I'm just observing what we
all know, but would rather not confront.



Just why do you think things are the way you describe. Do you think
that blacks are just lazy? Are they not capable of learning. Tell us
your thoughts.
Thumper

Not sure who you are asking. There is no way I think blacks are just
lazy. Read some biographies of many blacks and think on those blacks
I know that are successful. There is nothing genetically that would
suggest any particular group is more or less inclined to work hard.

Clarence Thomas describes his grandfather's hard life or rising early
and working from dawn to dusk. His grandmother as well. Thomas is
also example of hard work and very keen intelligence.

The difference I believe begins in what happens early in a child's
life. What are the examples around them and what activities do they
become engaged in. Kids are very much a copy of those early years. If
nobody reads, the kids is unlikely to have a world opened to them.
Thomas read which allowed him to realize a world far beyond the Jim
Crow world. Ayaan Hirsi Ali read great literature in her youth in
Somalia, Kenya, Saudia Arabia, and Ethiopia which opened her eyes to a
world beyond the prison women live in in Islamic world.

I don't buy that stuff of a few points on intelligence tests as
deciding success or failure in life. The brilliant have advantages
but are not destined for succeess without the investments of their
parents, teachers, ministers, and others.

Sadly, the black culture in America does not value much of the
elements of academic, employment, and such and their kids are cheated
therefore.

If you don't like it, do something for a child and don't let race
pimps like Wright poison their minds that they are victims.

Sorry, but it's just a fact that there are genetic differences in
intelligence. As groups go, Ashkenazi Jews are the smartest people on
the planet -- but Sephardic Jews are not so bright. Take a look at any
list of Nobel prize winner and Jewish names predominate. Next come
East Asians -- Chinese, Japanese, and Koreans. Then Western European
Caucasians. Ranking a little below Caucasians are the Indians of
Mexico and Central America and Arabs. Barely hanging on the bottom
rung of the ladder are the Blacks of central and southern Africa.
Those are of course averages. There are always going to be people
beating the averages, and these days many of us have a mixture of
genes. On average, given a level playing field, those with more brains
will tend to be more economically successful, and why not? Just the
way it is. It's not fair, but who said life is fair?

This as a very narrow academic point that serves little beyond being
only one of many ways to look at people.

Jim, the income gap between Blacks and Whites in this country is
attributed to all sorts of things -- racism, discrimination,
illegitimacy, the legacy of slavery, social attitudes towards
education, underfunded ghetto schools -- the list of politically
motivated excuses is endless. And then you compare groups of Blacks
and Whites with equal intelligence, and guess what, their income is
the same. But ... we have to put ourselves through generation after
generation of accusations, recriminations, dumbed down schools, riots,
and wasted government programs -- all designed to cure a disease that
doesn't exist.

And tall people get better
jobs while blacks dominate many sports. It is meaningless as a tool
for policy or virtually anything else.

It's meaningless as long as we refuse to discuss it and instead
concentrate on fooling ourselves about what the real problem is. Look
at yourself. You are convinced that if we could only get Blacks to
take a serious Chinese attitude towards family and education a new age
of enlightenment would dawn. Well you can wish all you want, but it's
not going to happen, and it's not their fault.

If it is a tool one can use in
today's world to make it a better place, I invite you to take that
next step and describe how within current world realities. You have
made this point repeatedly as an counterpoint to anything else that
may consider why different performance. The next logical point
is?????

Let me turn that question around and ask you, if the current policies
of preferences and quotas don't work, why must we go on, year after
year pouring billions into pretending we can solve social problems
with government programs which target problems which don't exist?

To quote Herrnstein and Murray:

"Inequality of endowments, including intelligence, is a reality.
Trying to pretend that inequality does not exist has led to disaster.
Trying to eradicate inequality with artificially manufactured outcomes
has led to disaster. It is time for America once again to try living
with inequality ...

Herrnstein and Murray make specific recommendations. I'm not going to
scan The Bell Curve and post it here. Buy it or borrow it, and read it
before you assume that nothing can be done and we are compelled to
keep reliving a fantasy of discrimination and social injustice,
beating up each other for problems that are not of our doing and are
not the fault of the victims.

It is potential and not measurement of outcomes. It assumes there is
only one measurment of intelligence and their are many. The strength
of your expression and how you have repeated it again and again in
light of all other aspects of success seems to suggest you see this as
explaining everything between different groups. Just an assumption on
my part.

If we used some scale that was attuned to predict the collection of
intelligence needed to play many sports, the results would be turned
upside down. Thus, why only select the one that best matches our
desired outcomes. Many believe (including me) there are multiple
ranges of potential (intelligences) where only a few will dominate.

Linguistic intelligence ("word smart"):
Logical-mathematical intelligence ("number/reasoning smart")
Spatial intelligence ("picture smart")
Bodily-Kinesthetic intelligence ("body smart")
Musical intelligence ("music smart")
Interpersonal intelligence ("people smart")
Intrapersonal intelligence ("self smart")
Naturalist intelligence ("nature smart")

I believe that just looking at genetic markers and then ranking
outcomes ignores everything else. It also seems to assume that
everyone is competing to be a physicist, musician, or some other
occupation where those who excel on your scale seem to dominate. If
your scale were predictive for all paths in life, why aren't those
small groups of Jews dominating the world and why haven't they wiped
out the rest of us? That is not a silly question as historically,
those with greater ability have dominated those they encountered to
the point of spreading their genetic's wider.

I agree with your point that on some scale of intelligence some group
of Jews dominate, some Asians rank very high and it is an interesting
point academically. As an operational principle for doing anything,
it is only an inflamatory comment that achieves nothing we can use to
improve education, productivity etc.
.

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