Re: Stanford to eliminate tuition for families earning less than $100,000

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Rita wrote:

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:24:14 -1000, "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008, Rita wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:44:07 -0500, Thumper <jaylsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:47:47 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Rita wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:56:23 -0800, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Rita wrote:
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 09:45:32 -0500, Thumper <jaylsmith@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 06:07:51 -0800, Rita <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:44:08 -0600, Glenn <minorgo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 07:54:00 -0500, Harry Hope wrote:

From The San Francisco Chronicle, 2/20/08:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/20/MNABV5LHM.DTL&tsp=1

Stanford drops tuition for some students

Steve Rubenstein, Chronicle Staff Writer


Palo Alto --

In a radical change to its financial aid program, Stanford University will
announce today that it will no longer charge tuition to students whose
families earn less than $100,000 a year.

In addition, the university will waive room and board fees for students
whose families earn less than $60,000 a year.

University President John Hennessy will make the announcement today on
campus, university Provost John Etchemendy confirmed late Tuesday.

The university is making the change in the wake of published reports last
month that its endowment had grown almost 22 percent last year, to $17.1
That's a good deal. Add free books and stipends and soon we will be
almost as good as the Finns.
Stanford is emulating Harvard which offers the same deal. The Harvard
president challenged other elite schools to follow along. Seems
Stanford has taken up the challenge.
Now if they could only return to the pre-Reagan years when education
at public institutions in California was free.
Thumper
One of my granddaughters has applied to Harvard and Stanford as well
as to California state universities. She will not, however, get the
free room and board deal if she is lucky enough to be selected for
Harvard or Stanford since her father makes far too much income. But
she will be happy to attend a California state university -- she
didn't want to apply for one of the prestige schools but her Dad took
her on a tour to see them and encouraged her to try. She is an
egalitarian sort but after visiting Harvard's campus and seeing how
people are assigned at random to the dorms, etc. she did like it.
Harvard assigned a local alumnus to phone her for an interview
recently. But so many talented kids apply and only a tiny number
are selected.

I don't think tuition should be free for everyone -- just affordable
in the state schools. Like it or not, California has considerable
fiscal problems. And many worthy causes competing for state funds.

I tend to believe there are paths for most toward a quality education
even if they have to start out in a low cost community college. That
is, if a student is able to do quality work they can usually find a
spot that suits. Education now is a lifelong enterprise. I think
many benefit by working for a time and going back as adults. It is
not something that must be completed early in life.


I agree that education is a lifelong enterprise, but I disagree that one
can do it any time. The sooner one gets a college education, the better
lifelong income they will have. It is also easier to learn when one is
young. I think that we need to get past the point of thinking that some
young people need to get their heads in the right place before they go
to college. Too many kids, left to themselves, will drift along through
life until they realize that it is too late. Better to work with them
to get their heads in the right place sooner.

In my case, my parents survived the great depression, but came out of it
realizing that education was the key to not being poor. This message
was drummed into my head throughout my childhood and there was no
question but that I would find some way to get a college education. My
father's favorite saying on the topic was, "Put your money in your head
so that no one can take it away from you." I was motivated to work my
way through college and found a job that paid for my graduate degrees,
but it is much more difficult now.

I admire those who come up the hard way, through community colleges, but
it is very difficult, especially if you have to work to support
yourself. The quality of education is so much better at the larger
schools. Better that we find a way to help those who are gifted and
motivated to get the best education possible rather than force them to
work their way up simply because they are poor.

I hope that Stanford's example (and the other schools like Harvard as
well) will motivate us to reinvest again in our youth.

I totally agree that the kids who are obviously gifted and hard
working students should have every chance to attend a great college.

But there are many kids who simply are not so motivated -- at an
early age. Opportunities for lifelong learning means that their
chances are never lost forever.

And as for graduate degrees, I have three children who obtained
them as mature adults. They obtained them in fields other than those
that had interested them right out of high school. Often I think
with some maturity and life experience behind them decisions about
what career choices to aim for are different than when they were
young.


I think that most parents have agonized over this. Do you insist that
your children go to college or do you give them the freedom to make
their own choices? I think that if this decision is left until the
student is ready to graduate from high school, it is too late. There
needs to be a positive emphasis on education from early childhood.

I admit to being very fortunate to have had parents who emphasized the
value of education and to have personally made good choices in what I
chose to study. As a result, it is difficult for me to understand young
people who cannot seem to figure out what they want to do. Perhaps they
are overwhelmed by the choices.

You are correct, of course, in stating that it is possible to go back to
school. In fact, I would argue that it is probably going to be
necessary for many. Two of my graduate students had pursued advanced
degrees, only to realize after getting them that they preferred to work
at something else. One had a law degree from Harvard and had passed the
NY Bar. He came back to Stanford to get a degree in Computer Science
and is now a successful entrepreneur (with a knowledge of law). Another
went through med school including internship only to then get a degree
in Computer Science. Now she is a highly talented researcher in medical
applications of computers. To their credit, they didn't just settle
into a career that they didn't like. They turned it into something that
they could be passionate about!


Because my wife works at a university, our boys could go to several
schools tuition free. Neither one of them will go. We have agonized
over this for years.
Thumper

One of my daughters took a clerical job at NYU many
years ago. She got free tuition for herself and
children. First she finished her own B.A. degree.
Then she began working on an MSW (social work), got
promoted and became a therapist and co-director of
the college's mental health center. Meanwhile three
daughters, one by one, enrolled as students at NYU
and one also completed an M.A. there. The entire
family benefited because she made a decision many
years ago to accept a slightly lower salary working
for NYU in a clerical job than she could have
obtained in private business. The two daughters who
did not get master's degrees at NYU are in programs
now at other colleges -- they took time out to decide
what field to pursue one in.

My daughter's husband died and she was a single
mother. Her choice to work at NYU was based entirely
on the tuition reimbursement benefit.

I have known so many women who returned to school,
one way or the other, and were far more engaged and
serious about it than when they were just out of high
school. That is why I am such a fan of lifelong
education.

It is nice, as Islander argues, when a bright kid right out of high school can decide on a field and go for it in a straight line. But countless people for one reason or another take a different path. I credit the women's movement for starting this all. They began this in the 1960s and 1970s and adult men eventually joined them in becoming older students.

One of the problems with this country is that people cannot easily retrain for a new carreer if their jobs are outsourced overseas. We need to have a continuing education program such as you describe, for everyone.

It can be tough to take college courses when you are also working -- does require some initiative and eats into free time to do other things. Most colleges have added night and weekend classes to accomodate those folks who are employed but working on training or a degree in a new field. I do not wish to make it sound easy, it is not. And if you lose your job you have no source of support if you just go back to school full-time.

So there are many aspects to be worked out to make lifelong education a common occurrence. I happen to think it essential we do.

Perhaps your sister should have worked in the College of continuing education. There are already "many aspects" that have been worked out. It's not the educational issues that are the problem. It's the willingness of govt to neglect this issue because of cost.
.

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