Re: A beautiful day in Georgia

Alan Lichtenstein wrote:
El Castor wrote:

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 00:26:02 GMT, jimstevens
<jimstevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


[Default] On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 16:04:14 -0800, Islander
<nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


jimstevens wrote:

[Default] On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:05:31 -0800, Islander
<nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


jimstevens wrote:

[Default] On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 07:55:41 -0800, Islander
<nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


jimstevens wrote:

[Default] On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 23:22:04 -0800, El Castor
<No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 02:03:39 GMT, jimstevens
<jimstevens@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


[Default] On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:22:43 -0800, El Castor
<No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 12:00:51 -0800, Rita <Rita@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 19:45:54 GMT, Rumpelstiltskin
<PleaseDoNotReplyByEmail@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 07:20:31 -0600, Glenn <minorgo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:06:26 +0000, Rumpelstiltskin wrote:


I hope he found things more to
his taste, more peaceful, and somebody to go fishing with back in West
Virginia.

You are aware, I hope, that West Virginia is part of the North and exists
because its citizens found the "hubris" of the south unendurable. Unfortunately for West Virginia, the south has had it in for them ever
since.

It's in limbo, in my mind, not really North or South.

Just read that Huckabee won all the West Virginia primary votes
in the caucus there.

McCain's supporters combined with Huckabee's to insure that Romney
would not win. It's becoming clear that Huckabee wants to be McCain's
VP. The conventional wisdom is that most of Huckabee's supporters
would move over to Romney if Huckabee pulled out, but there is an
interesting article that discusses that scenario in painful detail and
argues that McCain would still beat Romney, but it would be closer. http://michaelmedved.townhall.com/blog/g/2e932bab-9582-42bb-baf6-5e6f54aa62ad


As it stands, nationwide McCain leads Romney by 18% - 20%, depending
on which poll you believe.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national-primary.html


If he leads it is because Romney and Huck are splitting the party
conservatives.. McCain can't carry the south on his own and the South
is GOP heartland. He will probably pay off Huck with VP or some other
plum. I am guessing there will be a lot of pissed of people tonight
as they process the deal between Huck and McCain in WV.
Interesting night. From the news:

February 5, 2008
Schneider: Conservative split in Georgia helps McCain
Posted: 08:55 PM ET

(CNN) — Why is the Georgia Republican race so tight? Because, as they
are elsewhere tonight, conservative voters are splitting between Mike
Huckabee and Mitt Romney.

McCain is winning easily there among Republicans who identified
themselves as moderates or liberals — 40 percent of them are voting
for the Arizona senator. But those voters only make up about a third
of primary voters there.

The 67 percent of Georgia voters who say they are conservative are
mostly voting against McCain — but they are splitting between Mike
Huckabee and Mitt Romney. Each are drawing roughly 40 percent of the
conservative vote.

If all that conservative vote went to one candidate, McCain would get
blown out there.

– CNN Political Analyst Bill Schneider

If, if, if. If pigs had wings they could fly. (-8

It will be interesting to hear what Rush has to say tomorrow. I hope
he doesn't choke on his crow pie. (-8

Romney is out of it. He has nothing to offer anybody and has no
future as a contender. He can't win the South which is GOP heartland.
Rush will be spitting and sputtering today. It is too early for him
to make any direction I am guessing as in the end he will find some
way to support McCain. Got to believe a great many of his listeners
are not going to sit on their hands come November. Rush becomes
irrevelant at some point if he pisses into wind too long.

And don't give me that if if if crap. That if if if crap is what will
determine what McCain does now that he clearly can't win in Red states
with his own party! This really is about the GOP nominee and at this
point, McCain is going into convention unable to win with Republicans
in Republican states. How about them apples? ;)

I'm guessing that McCain will ask a willing Huckabee to share the ticket and will "unite" the party. The deal that they struck in West Va is an indication of things to come.

Yup. Wondering who Hillary may name as her running mate. Your
thoughts?

I agree that Clinton has the edge for the #1 position, primarily through the uncommitted super delegates who will likely swing toward the better known entity.


The party
would benefit from a more mature and experienced Obama in the future given the right jobs as VP.

That is kind of what I said recently. He is very fine speaker and can
appeal to many different groups with his speeches. But, he lacks real
experience or accomplishments in some broader context. Being VP is
not only way to do it though and under Hillary he will be restricted
in many ways. He and she are very different in policies I believe and
he will have to mouth her policies for years. Not good for him.

I don't think that an Obama/Clinton ticket
would work, but a Clinton/Obama ticket could be very strong.

Yes it is a winning ticket to win election but never to govern. Would
you want to have that guy as your deputy? She sure won't and he won't
do so well if she gives him a very limited portfolio. She will run
with him only if she has to to get the nomination or to win general
election. Otherwise they will make nice and he will make some
appearances to help her get elected (investing in his own political
future).


But, as we have learned, nothing is certain in this race. Personally, I could happily vote for either one.

Interesting to think that a black man could bring strength from the south! A sign of progress, perhaps.

It is race politics of the ugliest if you look real close. When 80%
of black voters come out to vote for a black guy that is pure racial
politics and without it he is nobody Paul. As others have said, many
white voters he attracts are spoilers who would never vote for him. I
will probably vote for him here in Virginia just to make her spend
more money. But, when it is all said and done, she is the only
credible candidate that can govern among the pack. All the rest are
fatally flawed in some manner. That does not mean I support her as
she represents all I disagree with.

Were Obama white, Jewish, Asian or even female, he would be history in
this race. He sure as hell would not have Oprah in his camp!

I disagree. What Obama lacks in experience he makes up for in the advisers that are on his team. Check out Austan Goolsbee, David Cutler, and Jeff Liebman, for example. They might surprise you. Barack has a very rare talent to inspire people and the nation is desperate for someone who envisions a better future. This is leadership and he is better at it than any of the rest of them. If we were electing someone on the basis of credentials, we would hire a executive search firm and hope for the best.

Yes, there are some blacks who will vote for him simply because he is black and I don't blame them just as I don't blame women who would vote for Clinton just because she is a woman.

"Some blacks"??? Come on. Have you seen the statistics in Georgia,
South Carolina or St Louis. I would consider the election
of either a sign of progress. OTOH, I have a great deal of trouble with Jews voting for Lieberman because he is Jewish, Southern Baptists voting for Huckabee because he is SBC, or Mormons voting for Romney because he is Mormon, but this happens too.

You "have a great deal of trouble with Jews voting for Lieberman
because he is Jewish . . . " I am so confused. There are not enough
Jews among Lieberman's constituency to make a difference in elections.
Such is not the case with Obama. Without the overwhelming (80%) vote
of blacks for Obama, he does not win anything in the South.


I agree that managing him as VP would be a challenge, but it is always a challenge to manage talented people. Give him the right set of assignments and he could be a valuable asset. Try to keep him in the background with busywork and he will be a constant source of aggravation. Personally, I would hire him for the job in a NY minute and I would give him the opportunity to prove himself with some of the toughest jobs!

If Hillary were to pick him and if he were to agree to serve, it will reveal a great deal more about her ability to succeed as President than anything else.

We see it differently. The man is nobody if he is white. He is the
darling of all 'because he is black' and only for that reason.


You gotta give his silver tongue a little credit, as well as his
remarkable ability to talk for hours without saying a thing. What does
Obama stand for? No one is exactly sure, including Obama.

Hate to give Jeff credit for something, but he hit the nail on the head with this one. To quote Tom Lehrer, who plagiarized it and paraphrased it from elsewhere, Obama is 'full of words and music and signifying nothing.'

Pity those who are fooled by the panaceas he spouts can't see through him, can't see through him to realize that panaceas are just that.

Hillary did indeed have his number when she labeled him as the agent of false hope.

I'm having a great deal of trouble understanding exactly what your problem with Obama might be. Have you actually done any research on him, or are you reacting to what you see on TV? Have you examined his stated positions on issues on his web site? Have you read the positions of his advisers? I have and am impressed. (I'm also impressed by the depth of discussion of the issues on Clinton's web site.)

Personally, I worry about the credentials of those who seem best qualified for the job. Remember LBJ? There has probably never been a President with better Washington credentials, yet he dragged us deeper and deeper into Vietnam. A typical Texan, he simply could not back down on anything. Yes, he made significant progress in Civil Rights, but the time was right. Any Democratic president would have done the same for Civil Rights given increasing state of revolution in the country.

I find nothing wrong with Obama's message of hope. It is what we need most after 8 years of the Bush disaster. We have a great deal of work to do to restore the nation's self esteem and we need someone with vision and inspiration to lead that. We are fortunate to have two very good candidates and on this point, I think that Obama is better. There are other issues where I think that Clinton is better.

This is SO much better than the choices that the Republicans have where no one is happy.
.

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