Re: Again and Always... 'It's the Economy, Stupid'

Thanks.

"El Castor" <No_One@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:uhi4h3d68nu2efl4uggqd4fb5mg1umepk3@xxxxxxxxxx
On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 09:18:53 -1000, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:OrWdnaPILtbMq43anZ2dnUVZ_uOmnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Jerry Okamura wrote:

"Islander" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Up-dnQ-mh60aL5PanZ2dnUVZ_jmdnZ2d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
El Castor wrote:
On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 18:30:38 -0700, NoName <noname@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 16:54:57 -0700, Florida
<demeter547opine@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Big snip


Like Iraq and healthcare, there are stark differences in Democratic
and Republican economic philosophy. So clear that most independent
voters understand these differences. That's a good omen for the
Democrats so long as they remember, "It's the economy, stupid."
________________

I believe Mike Huckabee was the only candidate in the debate on
economic policy who acknowledged that Americans are uneasy about
the economy and their place in it.

He said unions will take a more prominent role as a response to income
inequality. He bashed CEO and hedge fund salaries.

I think he was the only GOP candidate to even mention income
inequality.

But, of course, ignoring it does not mean it does not exist.

At least, for a few years we haven't had to hear the laments about a
jobless recovery. Now it's income inequality. I suppose there will
always be a lament of some sort. But not to worry, as soon as Hillary
is in office she will raise taxes and we will all be equal.

Nope, you don't get away with that. Yes, there are some new jobs, but
the number of new jobs has not kept up with the population growth. This
is the worst period of job growth since Hoover. Monthly job growth
since March 2001 has averaged an annualized 0.7%. From September 2006 to
September 2007, the average monthly job growth was 135,800 jobs. It
takes 225,000 new jobs per month to keep up with population growth.

But, that is only part of the story. Wages are not keeping up with
inflation,

Can you cite some data to support that claim?

Yes, when you include food and fuel, average wages in the US do not keep
up with inflation.

Now I think you are a whole lot smarter than I am, so I would hope that you
undestand that you provided no data to support your assertion, which is what
I asked for.

benefits are disappearing,

You mean government benefits are disapperaing? Is that necessarily bad?

No, I'm talking about health and retirement benefits provided by
employers.

Okay, let us pick on health benefits. "If' health benefits provided by
employers are disappearing, then the number of uninsured people in the
United States should be exploding shouldn't it? Is the number of uninsured
people in the United States exploding? If it is not exploding, then the
fact that companies are not providing health benefits, is not important is
it? As for retirement benefits, it seems to me that is a two way street.
You have to be with a company for a certain period of time, in order to even
be vested in their retirement program, unless is is a 401K type of
retirement benefit.

family debt is increasing,

If family debt is increasing, isn't that a result of a "choice" that
these families are making? I thought you democrats are all in favor of
the idea of "choice"?

Democrats are in favor of giving people fair choices, not placing them at
the mercy of predatory lenders or developers.

Ah the old "we are just victims" idea.....

mortgage foreclosures are increasing,

When yu buy somehting, ANYTYING, that you cannt afford to make payments
for, that is what is going to happen. What do you propose doing about
the problem?

When a credit granting organization makes more from people who fall behind
on their payments than they do from people who make payments on time,
there is something seriously wrong with our system. The legislation
governing bankruptcy went too far. It is not fair to just blame the
victim.

Now all you have to do (once again) is to prove that what you just said is
true....

poverty is still higher than in
2000, etc.

People who are poor have one thing in common for the most part. They do
not have enough of an educdation. Is that the fault of government, or
the fault of the choices the people made?

When the government removes opportunities for people to afford an
education, then it is the fault of the government. The wealthy have a
significant advantage in providing a quality education to their children.

Every child in this coutnry get a free education up to high school. What
has the governemnt removed? As for the wealthy they will ALWAYS have an
advantage over anyone else. Nothing you do, nothing the government does,
will change that, not even socialism, because even in a socialist society,
someone is going to figure out how to be wealthier than someone else....a
whole lot wealthier than someone else.

The average working American is clearly not benefiting from
this so called "recovery."

The more education a person has the more likely they will benefit from
ANY recovery. It is all a matter of the "choices" they make.

Education is important, but it is not just a matter of choice. Are you
prepared to claim that everyone can have a quality college education if
they decide to?

Absolutely!!!!

Jerry, Islander has a point, however it's not quite as bleak as he
wishes it was. The following piece reports on 2006.

"Reflecting the fifth year of an economic expansion, the percent of
the nation in poverty fell last year, and the income of the median
household grew (after inflation) by about $360, or just under one
percent (0.7%), according to data released today by the U.S. Bureau of
the Census. This is the second year of real income gains for the
median household, and the first significant decline in poverty since
2000."
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_econindicators_income20070828

I suspect income issues are a combination of a lot of things, but
illegal immigration likely has a lot to do with it. Illegal
immigration, for instance, almost certainly has a stimulative effect
on parts of the economy, and provides jobs and increased wages for
some workers, but the lower end of the economic ladder that immigrants
compete with almost certainly has a harder time of it. Then there is
globalization and competition from countries like China. Many workers
do benefit by lower prices of consumer goods, but others are displaced
and wind up in lower paying jobs. A weaker dollar may help many of
those workers and may be part of the reason things have looked up for
them in the last couple of years as a weak dollar has stimulated US
manufacturing.

The real question I think we have to ask ourselves is if the world is
changing how much can we do to stop it, and if we could, would it be
in our best interests to do so? Higher taxes, restraints on trade,
impediments to outsourcing, and increased business and labor
regulation, the panacea that lefties like Islander promote, will in
the long run only make things worse.

Jeff

.

Relevant Pages

  • CIA and Mossad and western media ordered to create more wars ASAP to help save USA and Israel from
    ... A number of U.S. companies have announced jobs cuts this week, ... The economy has just collapsed, and has gone into a free fall," said ... deploying unconventional measures to buy government debt and lend ... supplied covert operations in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War. ...
    (soc.veterans)
  • Re: We Needed A Big Gas Tax Like We Need a Scathing Case of Herpes
    ... Do you think the government wastes a huge amount of our tax dollars? ... They screamed the sky was falling two years ago and our newly elected DEMOCRATIC governor got a substantial tax hike enacted. ... Turns out the federal tax cuts improved the State's economy much faster than our governor expected, ... You need to get a new mantra because this "jobs are leaving, wages are stagnant" droning just doesn't bite anymore. ...
    (rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang)
  • Re: Again and Always... Its the Economy, Stupid
    ... Democrats so long as they remember, "It's the economy, stupid." ... Yes, there are some new jobs, but the number of new jobs has not kept up with the population growth. ... Is that the fault of government, or the fault of the choices the people made? ... When the government removes opportunities for people to afford an education, then it is the fault of the government. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Can We Bury Supply-Side Economics Now? It Doesnt Work!
    ... government regulators are always wrong. ... You call up the Fed and tell em to save the economy by printing ... will be any jobs left for them to do. ... And the truth is that the current Imperial Republicans ...
    (sci.econ)
  • Re: Think of the people running this country as the mad-dashers
    ... they have access to good jobs at good wages. ... My colleague at The Times, David Cay Johnston, took a look at income ... How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government ... From 1980 to 2005 the national economy, adjusted for inflation, more ...
    (soc.retirement)