Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????

On Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:28:19 -0700, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Thumper wrote:
On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:26:57 -0700, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

JC wrote:
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Justine wrote:

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:15:29 -0700, El Castor <No_One@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:


On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:13:36 -0700, "John H. Fisher"
<TaxService@xxxxxxx> wrote:


Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????

HOW GREAT IS IT???? Why is it we now pay more for a pound of
fruit
or vegetables than we do for a pound of meat or poultry??? Why is
it
that the price of goods and services have increased FAR BEYOND the
"average increase in income"???? How does the increase in income
to
the ultra wealthy contribute to that "average increase in
income"???

How much worse off is your situtation than it was yesterday???
Are
you more afraid of Al-Quaida than you are of a bridge falling while
you are on it??? How much more afraid of the overall failure of
the
infra-structure, the loss of life as a result of an illegal war,
and
impending bankruptcy of yourself AND THIS NATION, than you are the
of
result of incompetence and criminality of the current
administration???

How much more is being confiscated from your Social Security, each
year, to pay for medical insurance??? How little have raises in SS
contributed to offsetting your cost of living increases???
Sheesh! 4.5% unemployment. 2.5% inflation. Economy growing at a good
pace. You Dems are never satisfied unless a fellow left winger is in
the White House. And who cares what you pay for fruit and
vegetables?
Grow your own for all I care.
They try to talk down any thing that could give conservatives an
"atta
boy" moment. But the public is on to them and their biased media.
According to the latest Pew poll, 64% of the public believes the
media
is biased to the left.

Pardon my intrusion, but while the OP did make a post that borders
somewhat on a rant, and an emotional one, at that, he dies raise some
very significant issues. His questions above of "Why is it that the
price of goods and services have increased FAR BEYOND the average
increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ultra
wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?"

Based on these questions he raises, he is inferring that the constant,
but modest rise in GDP is not benefiting all Americans, as once such
rises did. And it does appear that the disparity in income levels, as
reported by various Governmental Sources does bear this out.

Glossing over these statistics, IMV, is shortsighted, for doing so
fails to consider the ultimate affects on society. do we want a
society where we have no middle class? I think that such bears
discussion.
I don't see why there is such a mystery here. Why does the spread
between upper income and lower and middle income keep widening? Well
duh? It's because the upper income people have discretionary funds to
invest and they invest it and they earn a return on that investment.
Low income people, and to a certain extent middle income people, do
have that luxury. But, that's what makes the world go 'round, the lower
income people and the middle income people working to gain the next
level so that one day they will have those discretionary funds to
invest. Back in the old days, before this government started coddling
certain classes of people in order to buy their votes, everyone worked
hard to try to gain that next level but it is very habit forming to
start taking the easy way out and accepting the government charity. I
remember when it was very shameful to accept handouts. Now it seems
there's a contest on to see who can get the most.


Interesting, but a pretty self-serving theory. In reality, the game is
stacked against the low and middle income parts of our population. Yes,
a few claw their way into wealth or get lucky, but most people working
for a wage never get ahead of the game. Why? Because the tax code is
heavily biased in favor of the wealthy. The more wealth that you have,
the more advantage that you have. This is the Republican form of social
engineering.
I'm a long time student of the tax code. And you could not be more
ill-informed. It is not heavily biased in favor of the wealthy. It is
heavily biased in favor of you getting wealthy and staying there. Read it
and see.


Well, we can agree on the "staying there" part! And we could also agree on
"getting wealthier." As far as getting wealthy, we disagree. You have to
have discretionary income after taxes to accumulate wealth and most
Americans no longer have sufficient discretionary income to take advantage
of the tax code.
I have put so many people in business without hardly a dime that I can't
even count them anymore. These folks with all their theories need to get out
in the real world and look around for awhile. Go to a flea market, a farmers
market, a craft show, a festival, a carnival. There are thousands of people
at these venues that start with NOTHING but a talent for making something
and they are making small fortunes. And the tax code helps them by allowing
them to expense 100% of the equipment they might need, and to depreciate a
lot of things too valuable to expense. But a whole lot of people are such
defeatest. They're afraid to risk anything.

I run a sustainable agriculture operation. I allow people from the city to
come to our farm and scratch out a garden and raise crops to take back to
the city to sell at a huge farmers market. They keep 60% of the profit and
we get 40%. We put up all the money to get them started. I've got a
neighbor, probably an illegal immigrant, making over $200,000.00 a year
MOWING LAWNS in the richest neighborhood in Houston, Texas! Seven years ago,
I gave him an old lawn mower so he could go earn some money to buy and old
truck I had for sale.

You know why these people are doing so good? Because of the tax advantages
available to them for starting their own businesses. THIS IS A FREE
ENTERPRISE SOCIETY. THE TAX CODE IS GEARED TOWARD GIVING PEOPLE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS. You don't even need an education.
All you need is a talent and the sense to hire someone to count your money
for you. Everybody has a talent. Not everybody has the sense to discover it.

If people would just stop being so jealous of those who have achieved
success and get off their butts they would probably be surprised at what
they can accomplish. I think that is one of the main gripes people have with
George W. Bush. They rant and rave about how he has been a failure at
everything he has ever done and the first thing they point to is his oil
ventures. He was extremely successful in his oil ventures. People just know
anything about how the oil business worked back then. This economy has one
of the lowest unemployment rates we've had in a long, long time. But, what
people are missing, or maybe just ignoring because they don't want to give
this administration credt, is how many new startup businesses there have
been. That, to me, is the mark of a good economy. I consider people that
only want to work for a wage to people without ambition or any faith in
their own abilities.


I had to get all the way down to the end of your rant to see that you
DID notice that I said, "...most people working for a wage never get
ahead of the game." Yes, I agree that there are many tax breaks for
businesses including small businesses. Your vision of a world in which
there are only small businesses, however, is pretty bizarre. Or perhaps
you would prefer everyone working as a private contractor instead of as
an employee.

The middle class in this country was built, not solely by individual
entrepreneurs, but by dedicated, hard working employees. That is the
opportunity that has been greatly diminished over the past 20 or so
years, especially with the loss of manufacturing.

A stable economy cannot be built without employees and the more they are
squeezed, the more the gap between the middle class and the wealthy
increases.


Perhaps JC could tell us how many hours the owner of a truly small
business puts in per week. How about the amount they pay for health
care. How much vacation do they have?

Owning and running a small business requires most to work at least the
equivalent of 2 regular jobs just to get by. As they say: "if it's
that easy, everyone would be doing it."
Thumper

Well, that is why small business works. People will work a whole lot
harder if they have the sole responsibility for the bottom line. The
problem is that there is no economy of scale. You can only get your
costs down to a certain level without employees.


True. It works for some but most small businesses fail and the chief
reason is being under capitalized. It's a perfect example of the
people with money being in a much better position to get wealthier.
Thumper
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????
    ... His questions above of "Why is it that the price of goods and services have increased FAR BEYOND the average increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ultra wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?" ... Because the tax code is heavily biased in favor of the wealthy. ... I have put so many people in business without hardly a dime that I can't even count them anymore. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????
    ... increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ultra ... wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?" ... I'm a long time student of the tax code. ... OPPORTUNITY TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????
    ... increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ultra ... wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?" ... I'm a long time student of the tax code. ... OPPORTUNITY TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????
    ... increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ... ultra wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?" ... I'm a long time student of the tax code. ... OPPORTUNITY TO START THEIR OWN BUSINESS. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Bush Sez "The Economy is "GREAT"????
    ... His questions above of "Why is it that the price of goods and services have increased FAR BEYOND the average increase in income," and "how does the increase in income to the ultra wealthy contribute to that 'average increase in income?" ... Because the tax code is heavily biased in favor of the wealthy. ... But, what people are missing, or maybe just ignoring because they don't want to give this administration credt, is how many new startup businesses there have been. ...
    (soc.retirement)