Re: Immigration Crackdown

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 16:12:24 -0400, Striper <nospam@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Thumper wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:40:59 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Thumper wrote:


On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:27:42 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



Matthew Scott wrote:



Is it deja vu all over again?

Immigration Crackdown - By ROBERT PEAR
Published: August 10, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/washington/10immig.html

WASHINGTON, Aug. 9 ? The administration plans to announce numerous steps
on Friday to secure the border with Mexico, speed the expulsion of
illegal immigrants and step up enforcement of immigration laws. Under
the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers
could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security
numbers. At the same time, federal officials would crack down on
companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants.
Administration officials told members of Congress on Thursday night that
they would speed up construction of fences along the Mexican border,
hire more Border Patrol agents and detain more of the immigrants caught
illegally crossing the border. Under a 1986 law, employers must ask job
applicants for documents to verify that they are United States citizens
or immigrants authorized to work here. Administration officials said
they wanted to simplify this process for employers by limiting the
documents that could be used.

Officials said they would train more state and local law enforcement
officers to help enforce federal immigration laws. Since 2002, the
federal government has trained more than 300 police and correctional
officers. But members of Congress say the administration could do much
more. They are also planning to step up efforts to arrest and deport
illegal immigrants who were members of street gangs. And they said
federal agents would fan out across the country to hunt down ?alien
fugitives? who had been ordered to leave the United States but failed to
comply.

I saw that report. In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact
that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The
Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it
actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals
who were here.

The article I read gave a few more details regarding The Government's
Plans. It said that employers would be required check employment
documents, Social Security numbers in particular, and if discrepancies
are reported, to then ask the employee to 'resolve' the discrepancies.
That was meant to have the employee present other, hopefully valid and
current documents, which would float. If the attempts at resolution
were unsuccessful, the employer would be required to fire the employee,
or be liable for that failure. The article said that employers who were
unable to resolve discrepancies due to systemic problems, would not face
prosecution.

The three criteria for dealing will illegal immigration is to root them
out, round them up and send them home. This is a step in the right
direction, as it weakly addresses the first stage, to root them out.
However, it is insufficient, even at this stage. There will be no
requirement to report the illegal to INS for deportation, thus
permitting the wetback to remain in this country, and get an
off-the-books job, as large numbers of them have. So we now need to go
to stage two, rounding them up, and stage three, sending them home.
Hopefully, the public will continue to make these demands, and force
this Government, as well as the next one to not only continue bearing
down on these wetbacks, but to actually take steps to better root them
out, round them up and send them home.

It can be done. The results of even this poor and inefficient process
will demonstrate that. Much to the chagrin of the apologists for the
wetbacks, I am sure.



It should not be done.

Sorry, Thumper, but it will. This is the first step, and perhaps the
ONLY thing that Bush ever did right. And for Bush, who thinks he has an
imperial presidency and can do whatever he wants, regardless of the
feelings of those he represents, is quite an accomplishment for him.
The public is overwhelmingly against illegal aliens remaining in this
country, and will continue to pressure their representatives to do
something about it. Politicians will finally be forced to do the
public's will.

You, of all people, who decries workers falling further and further
behind when corporations outsource jobs to countries where they pay
workers a fraction of the wages and benefits they received here, ought
to, above all, realize, that illegal aliens do exactly the same thing
here. They only benefit corporations, not our working people. If they
weren't here, wages would be forced to rise here, benefiting working
people here, and distributing the economic growth more fairly than it is
now being distributed. You, of all people, should recognize this, and
support this.



There are better remedies for these problems like a labor department
that is actually for l;abor and enforcement of the labor laws we have.
Unions are the answer if the labor department actually did their job.

Nice try, Thumper, but the Labor Department can't create jobs once
removed. Only the private sector can do that. Nor can the Labor
Department set wages; that's done through collective bargaining.
Thumper, if there are no workers, there are no people to bargain with,
and hence, no wage base. Thumper, Labor has suffered terribly with
reductions in the work force. I'm sure your conversant with the AFL-CIO
statistics.

Thumper, the ONLY remedy is JOBS, and MORE jobs at GOOD wages. Illegal
aliens depress the wages at the lowest levels, thus depressing the floor
upon which all wages above are based. Why do you think the quite
liberal economist, Paul Krugman is against illegal aliens? For EXACTLY
that reason. If they weren't here, and those employers had to pay
higher wages at the floor, then wages for all labor above that level
would similarly have to rise.


Put the blame where it lies. THE EMPLOYERS! The labor department can
enforce labor laws that allow unionization. They can enforce the law
regarding hiring of illegals. Don't blame the guy who wants to feed
his kids. You and I would be doing the same thing in their shoes.
Thumper
The corporations and the greedy Republican politicians mouth the fiction
that they only take jobs Americans don't want, and that's true.
Americans don't want those jobs at the salaries the wetbacks are paid.
if the wetbacks weren't here, the corporations and sundry other
employers would have to offer more for labor, thus setting off a ripple
effect up the scale, benefiting ALL workers. When ALL workers get a
greater share of the economic pie, then the positive GDP growth truly
benefits everyone fairly, and prevents this country from becoming a
country of haves, and have nots.



Getting rid of families of immigrants that have been here for decades,
working their asses off, won't solve the low wage problem.

I believe it will. And so does Paul Krugman. When we don't think
emotionally about the problem, as you're doing, we can look objectively
at it. Emotional involvement is never objective, nor rational, as it is
based on feelings rather than on objectivity. Hurts, a bit, I realize,
but it's for the best for all of us. Might even force the Mexicans to
put the squeeze on Carlos Slim to open his wallet for god and HIS
country. And reread the paragraph below once again.

Take a step back and look a little further down the road, and the
relationships that these illegals have on depressing other workers'
wages. The destruction of our middle class is a high price to pay for
misguided compassion for the needs of what are primarily, illegal
Mexican aliens.



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ... Sorry, Thumper, but it will. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... >> Thumper wrote: ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ... If they weren't here, wages would be forced to rise here, benefiting working people here, and distributing the economic growth more fairly than it is now being distributed. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. ... Administration officials told members of Congress on Thursday night that they would speed up construction of fences along the Mexican border, hire more Border Patrol agents and detain more of the immigrants caught illegally crossing the border. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... The administration plans to announce numerous steps ... illegal immigrants and step up enforcement of immigration laws. ... Under a 1986 law, employers must ask job ... actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ... If they weren't here, wages would be forced to rise here, benefiting working people here, and distributing the economic growth more fairly than it is now being distributed. ...
    (soc.retirement)
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