Re: Immigration Crackdown

Thumper wrote:

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 12:40:59 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Thumper wrote:


On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:27:42 -0400, Alan Lichtenstein <arl@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:



Matthew Scott wrote:



Is it deja vu all over again?

Immigration Crackdown - By ROBERT PEAR
Published: August 10, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/10/washington/10immig.html

WASHINGTON, Aug. 9 — The administration plans to announce numerous steps on Friday to secure the border with Mexico, speed the expulsion of illegal immigrants and step up enforcement of immigration laws. Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. At the same time, federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. Administration officials told members of Congress on Thursday night that they would speed up construction of fences along the Mexican border, hire more Border Patrol agents and detain more of the immigrants caught illegally crossing the border. Under a 1986 law, employers must ask job applicants for documents to verify that they are United States citizens or immigrants authorized to work here. Administration officials said they wanted to simplify this process for employers by limiting the documents that could be used.

Officials said they would train more state and local law enforcement officers to help enforce federal immigration laws. Since 2002, the federal government has trained more than 300 police and correctional officers. But members of Congress say the administration could do much more. They are also planning to step up efforts to arrest and deport illegal immigrants who were members of street gangs. And they said federal agents would fan out across the country to hunt down “alien fugitives” who had been ordered to leave the United States but failed to comply.

I saw that report. In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here.

The article I read gave a few more details regarding The Government's Plans. It said that employers would be required check employment documents, Social Security numbers in particular, and if discrepancies are reported, to then ask the employee to 'resolve' the discrepancies. That was meant to have the employee present other, hopefully valid and current documents, which would float. If the attempts at resolution were unsuccessful, the employer would be required to fire the employee, or be liable for that failure. The article said that employers who were unable to resolve discrepancies due to systemic problems, would not face prosecution.

The three criteria for dealing will illegal immigration is to root them out, round them up and send them home. This is a step in the right direction, as it weakly addresses the first stage, to root them out. However, it is insufficient, even at this stage. There will be no requirement to report the illegal to INS for deportation, thus permitting the wetback to remain in this country, and get an off-the-books job, as large numbers of them have. So we now need to go to stage two, rounding them up, and stage three, sending them home. Hopefully, the public will continue to make these demands, and force this Government, as well as the next one to not only continue bearing down on these wetbacks, but to actually take steps to better root them out, round them up and send them home.

It can be done. The results of even this poor and inefficient process will demonstrate that. Much to the chagrin of the apologists for the wetbacks, I am sure.



It should not be done.

Sorry, Thumper, but it will. This is the first step, and perhaps the ONLY thing that Bush ever did right. And for Bush, who thinks he has an imperial presidency and can do whatever he wants, regardless of the feelings of those he represents, is quite an accomplishment for him. The public is overwhelmingly against illegal aliens remaining in this country, and will continue to pressure their representatives to do something about it. Politicians will finally be forced to do the public's will.

You, of all people, who decries workers falling further and further behind when corporations outsource jobs to countries where they pay workers a fraction of the wages and benefits they received here, ought to, above all, realize, that illegal aliens do exactly the same thing here. They only benefit corporations, not our working people. If they weren't here, wages would be forced to rise here, benefiting working people here, and distributing the economic growth more fairly than it is now being distributed. You, of all people, should recognize this, and support this.



There are better remedies for these problems like a labor department
that is actually for l;abor and enforcement of the labor laws we have.
Unions are the answer if the labor department actually did their job.

Nice try, Thumper, but the Labor Department can't create jobs once removed. Only the private sector can do that. Nor can the Labor Department set wages; that's done through collective bargaining. Thumper, if there are no workers, there are no people to bargain with, and hence, no wage base. Thumper, Labor has suffered terribly with reductions in the work force. I'm sure your conversant with the AFL-CIO statistics.

Thumper, the ONLY remedy is JOBS, and MORE jobs at GOOD wages. Illegal aliens depress the wages at the lowest levels, thus depressing the floor upon which all wages above are based. Why do you think the quite liberal economist, Paul Krugman is against illegal aliens? For EXACTLY that reason. If they weren't here, and those employers had to pay higher wages at the floor, then wages for all labor above that level would similarly have to rise.

The corporations and the greedy Republican politicians mouth the fiction that they only take jobs Americans don't want, and that's true. Americans don't want those jobs at the salaries the wetbacks are paid. if the wetbacks weren't here, the corporations and sundry other employers would have to offer more for labor, thus setting off a ripple effect up the scale, benefiting ALL workers. When ALL workers get a greater share of the economic pie, then the positive GDP growth truly benefits everyone fairly, and prevents this country from becoming a country of haves, and have nots.



Getting rid of families of immigrants that have been here for decades,
working their asses off, won't solve the low wage problem.

I believe it will. And so does Paul Krugman. When we don't think emotionally about the problem, as you're doing, we can look objectively at it. Emotional involvement is never objective, nor rational, as it is based on feelings rather than on objectivity. Hurts, a bit, I realize, but it's for the best for all of us. Might even force the Mexicans to put the squeeze on Carlos Slim to open his wallet for god and HIS country. And reread the paragraph below once again.

Take a step back and look a little further down the road, and the relationships that these illegals have on depressing other workers' wages. The destruction of our middle class is a high price to pay for misguided compassion for the needs of what are primarily, illegal Mexican aliens.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ... Sorry, Thumper, but it will. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... >> Thumper wrote: ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ... If they weren't here, wages would be forced to rise here, benefiting working people here, and distributing the economic growth more fairly than it is now being distributed. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... Under the most significant change, disclosed earlier this week, many employers could be required to fire employees who used false Social Security numbers. ... federal officials would crack down on companies employing substantial numbers of illegal immigrants. ... Administration officials told members of Congress on Thursday night that they would speed up construction of fences along the Mexican border, hire more Border Patrol agents and detain more of the immigrants caught illegally crossing the border. ... In the article I saw, it gave as a reason the fact that after Bush's plan went down the tubes in the Senate, The Administration finally, acting quite out of character, decided that it actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals who were here. ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... The administration plans to announce numerous steps ... illegal immigrants and step up enforcement of immigration laws. ... Under a 1986 law, employers must ask job ... actually ought to do the will of the people, and go after the illegals ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: Immigration Crackdown
    ... illegal immigrants and step up enforcement of immigration laws. ... Under a 1986 law, employers must ask job ... workers a fraction of the wages and benefits they received here, ... regarding hiring of illegals. ...
    (soc.retirement)
Loading