Re: 'No Sun link' to climate change

Alvin E. Toda wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Alan Lichtenstein wrote:

El Castor wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:06:06 -1000, "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:


On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, El Castor wrote:


On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 03:20:33 -0700, Jake <jcbepstein@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


I recommend calling up the article and comparing the two graphs, one showing the cosmic ray variation, the the other the temperature rise from 1970 on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6290228.stm

Basically there is no relationship. The temperature keeps rising. Note that researchers do not totally discount the cosmic ray influence since there are likely to be periods in the past were in fact it did play an important role. Right now, at least, the greenhouse gas effects seem to be biggest influence.

******


Interesting, but the author's hypothesis seems to hinge entirely on two graphs -- Cosmic Ray Count and Global Mean Surface Air Temperature. The data may be controversial. I'm sure that Svensmark, Shaviv, and others will comment in time.

Jeff


Hardly, it seems that their analysis is a model of the last 40years of various solar data. If their model can account for the data, then the solar output is probably well explained by their analysis. I don't think that many other solar physicists will be able to get any better explanation of the data, and will also conclude that the solar output has declined since 1980.

Svensmark et al can have no response to this latest analysis because they simply assumed that the solar output was increasing and did not bother to do their own projections and show it on their graphs. If they purposely left it out, then this is a gross blunder and their integrity should be called into question. They're too experienced for that to happen.



Oh please, Alvin. I suspect "Svensmark et al" will squash this latest study like a bug. If not, then we shall see, but I'm willing to wait and listen to what they have to say.

Patience is the third of the six perfections.


The study of ice cores, the fossil record and geological formations reveals that the Earth went through a warming period 55 million years ago, at which time the oceans also became more acidic. The fossil record indicates that at that time, a substantial number of organisms went extinct.

Now, clearly, humans weren't around at that juncture, so the cause of such change is a matter of concern. Studies which you and your opponents mention are based on conclusions, rather than evidence. Unfortunately, for you deniers of global warming, science now has measurable evidence to explain that climate change.

The increase in acidity and warming is attributed to massive releases of greenhouse gases. This is born out by measurements of North American marine sediments as well as in the basalt layers of eastern Greenland. But what caused this release? It is now believed that the release of these gases was triggered by volcanic activity and tectonic shifts which caused Greenland to break apart from Europe and the Atlantic basin to open. That these events have occurred is all verified by measurable data. Data indicates that more than 1,500 billion tons of carbon were released into the atmosphere over a period of 20,000 years in the form of Carbon Dioxide and Methane. it was these gases which triggered what become know as the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, as that ancient warm period is now called. Although these gases were released over 20,000 years, measurements reveal that we are releasing these gases from Human activities and not natural activities at a far more rapid pace than the Earth shaping volcanism of eons ago. But we are heading in the same direction regardless.

Unlike your models and other denier conclusions, these are based on measurable data of previous warming events, and need no conjecture to connect the dots. They are hard evidence directly related to the process.


Alan... Jeff is immune to the facts, and expects more fairy tales from his favorite scientist who he considers more plausible than the facts. It's disgraceful now the stories of the Bush administration trying to play politics with scientific reports.

Indeed. Furthermore, Jeff does not understand that correlation does not equate with causation, and all he posts is correlation. If someone correlated the fact that the Earth Warmed in the past with the amount of green cheese available, according to Jeff, that correlation would be good enough for him to support his contentions.

However, Jeff refuses to answer my post, using the shallow excuse that 'he doesn't like me.' A convenient way for him to rationalize that he won't speak with someone who can make his positions appear for what they are: Full of words and music and signifying nothing.

Know who you're dealing with. Nothing but an intellectual coward.
.

Relevant Pages

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