Re: GOP senator says Iraq plan not working


"noname" <noname@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:mfb583ljkvdqne3uj0uus5f0vi74a4qcvp@xxxxxxxxxx
On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:11:35 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"noname" <noname@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 02:11:34 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Brian Funk" <bfunk850@xxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj005@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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A whole lot of people seem to have a "better" plan of what we should do
in
Iraq. The question it seems to me that we should be asking is, "is" it
really a better plan"?

Would you accept the military's thoughts? Seems to me they should be the
ones to actually design any leaving plan if that's what it is to be.

NO. I am in favor of ANY plan that will succeed, whether that is from the
military, or the civilian sector.

My idea the cover for the last few troops leaving would be to have the
white house and staff, all of the congress critters that voted for it,
and
the CEO' and boards of directors of all those big for profit companies
that made a killing there, including big oil.......... And have them
cover
the last troop's ass as he/she leaves.

You really want us not to succeed, don't you?

The U.S. has now been in Iraq for four years. There is no army to
defeat. No one to surrender. There are just a dozen or more militias
both Sunni and Shiite and some Al Queda all planting car bombs and
sending suicide bombers to blow up mosques of the opposing sect or
just taking out bystanders. These are not armies, they are criminals.
But lots and lots of them. They live in the shadows, they look like
any other Iraqi. The U.S. moves troops into an area, a neighborhood,
and they vanish from the scene and reappear in another location.
There is no central command. They operate independently from one
another. It is really a cat and mouse game, not a war that can be
won. They have infiltrated the Iraq police forces and army as well.
You can't tell the good guys from the bad guys by looking at them.
They plant car bombs alongside roads to blow up and kill and maim
our troops as they drive past. That is why Walter Reed Hospital is
filled with GIs with horrific wounds and brain injuries.

That is not the question I asked was it?


How do you win this kind of "war"? What is YOUR strategy for success,
Jerry? Come on, you call for success and victory, over and over. Time
for you to present YOUR plan for achieving it. How should the U.S. go
about identifying and taking out every last one of them? You
obviously believe it can be done. How?


First and foremst, do not give up. I fail to see how you can succeed, if we
cut and run. Do whatever it takes to defeat the insurgency. Kill them
faster than they can multiply... Go to war with any country that is at war
with us, which is effectively what Iran and Syria are (at war with the US),
since they are helping the insurgnecy....they certainly are not doing the
opposite. Disarm the populace, like we did in Japan after the Second World
War. Summarily execute anyone suspected of being part of the insurgency,
like we did in Germany after the Second World War and what the north did to
the rebellious southerners after the Civil War. Provide the new Iraqi
government with the means to effectively fight the insurgency. When they
can do that, then I have no trouble with the US withdrawing. Don't repeat
the mistake of Vietnam, where we urged they to fight, then left them holding
the bag, without the means to defend themselves.

You seem to forget that Iraq is a sovereign nation. We cannot execute
Iraqis -- their government has to do it through their legal process.

No problem with that. But "if" someone is shooting at you, then you don't have to capture them, you can kill them, whoever they are....can't you? But you are right, Iraq is a sovereign nation, and I would think they should have a say when you capture any Iraqi citizen. But that still leaves those who are not Iraqi citizens...

We could not possibly disarm the populace with the number of troops
we have in Iraq.

So? I offered a solution. You said it cannot be done with the number of troops we have. The solution, if your statement is correct, is very simple. Expand the military presence in Iraq, that is "if" you want to disarm the population and you think that is a partial solution to the problem....

We do not have a miiitary presence everywhere but
only in certain areas. What's more the Iraq government would have to
agree to and implement a disarming of the people and that would cause
major rebellion and the people feel they must have guns to protect
themselves. It is the same argument those who favor ownership of guns
make in the U.S. And the U.S. is not nearly as dangerous to live in
as Iraq. The U.S. has been trying to train Iraqis but the going is
slow and they can't function without U.S. direction.


I offered one plan to stop the violence. You are saying it cannot be done. I say, how do we know it cannot be done? Have we even tried?

If the U.S. can't find and identify the insurgents they can't kill
them. We do not have enough troops to be everywhere at one time.
That has allowed the insurgency to move from place to place.
And we don't have more troops available to send there. The forces
are stretched to the max as it is.

Basically it is a guerrilla war. Not a war with armies opposing each
other and a central command.


Yep. So? It still does not change my basic quesiton. Is it important to succeed or is it not important to succeed.
What do you do about all these problems?



.

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