Re: What do you do with those who fail?

On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:10:48 -0700, Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

El Castor wrote:

Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


El Castor wrote:


Islander <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



I watched a fictional drama last night about the investigation of the
murder of a single mother. For me, the show brought together many of
the problems that women face in today's world. The woman found herself
in a homeless situation after her husband died of cancer. Their
finances had been exhausted from medical expenses, their home was
repossessed, she had no skills or knowledge of how to handle finances,
and was left with a car, a minimum wage job, and two children.

Now, there are lots of things that this woman SHOULD have done
differently, but there are still plenty of women who accept the
traditional role of wife and mother, with the encouragement of their
husbands. The husband should have had more life insurance, etc. etc.

My question is, when it is too late for someone, a woman in this case,
to repair the mistake of not adequately preparing for a disaster, when
that disaster happens and they are left in a dire situation, what do we
as a responsible and compassionate society do to help?


Here's an old list of government welfare programs. I'm sure a little
research would update and expand it considerably. It doesn't include
private charities. like United Way, Catholic Charities, St. Anthonys,
Salvation Army, Goodwill, etc.

Medicaid
AFDC
Food Stamps
Supplemental Security Income
Lower income housing asst.
Earned Income Tax Credit
Veterans medical care
Stafford loans
Social Services (Title 20)
Pell Grants
Low-rent public housing
General medical assistance
Foster Care
School Lunch
Pensions for needy veterans
General Assistance
Head Start
Food supplements, Women, infants and children
Training for disadvantaged youth and adults
Low-income energy assistance
Rural housing loans
Indian Health Services
Summer youth employment
Maternal and child health
JOBS and WIN
Job Corps
Child care block grant
School Breakfast
Child care for AFDC
Nutrition Program for Elderly
Housing interest reduction
Child and adult care food program
"At risk" child care


Well, some of the programs that you cited clearly do not apply and
others have been either underfunded or discontinued. But, you seem to
think that there are adequate programs in place to address the problem.

I'm not so sure. The welfare reforms implemented during the Clinton
administration leave a gap between those seriously in need and those
chronically in need. Mind you, I think that it is good to give people a
hand up rather than a hand out, but people still fail and there are not
sufficient facilities to provide housing, much less many of the more
fundamental needs.

If what we have worked, there would not be homeless people living on the
streets or pan handling on the corners.
There are a lot of reasons why
people fail and we will never be able to completely prevent failure.
So, in the case of failure, even with everything that is presently done,
what is our responsibility as a society to those who fail?


My son-in-law, regrettably deceased, was a San Francisco police
sergeant. He was frustrated by the fact that every night beds went
empty in San Francisco shelters because many homeless refused them.
They preferred to drink wine with their buddies, or shoot up drugs --
activities that shelter rules prohibit. What should we as a society do
in that case?

The ACLU has done an excellent job of emptying mental hospitals from
coast to coast. The mentally ill who were at one time forcibly
committed to state mental hospitals now roam the streets, refusing
medication and babbling to themselves. What should we as a society do
in that case?

Personally, I believe that those that are unable or unwilling to
properly care for themselves, and refuse medication and/or housing,
should be institutionalized, but you will have to get the ACLU to sign
off on the concept. Good luck with that.


I think that both cases that you cited are health problems. In the
first case it is addiction and in the second case mental health. Both
also are often characterized by refusal of treatment. If they are a
physical threat to others, they can be institutionalized but that hardly
solves the problem. If they are only a threat to themselves, it is much
more difficult. The war on drugs has not worked and I doubt that it was
the ACLU that has denied care for the mentally ill.

While these two cases are the extreme, it is hardly fair to characterize
everyone who finds themselves in a personal disaster in the same way.
While there is some assistance available, as you pointed out, I wonder
if it is enough or if we should be doing more. In particular, the
welfare reform that was implemented during the Clinton years solved some
problems at the lowest level, but most recipients of welfare have not
been able to make the next step into productive lives.

Yes, those you would like to help are not in the same category as
either the addicted or the mentally ill.

For years people could be committed to an indefinite sojourn in
a mental hospital without due process. And the large state
mental hospitals were unsavory places, more warehouses than
treatment centers. And indeed, there was little effective treatment
to be had -- and that which was offered was along the lines of
electric shock, insulin shock, which was effective for only certain
kinds of cases.

With the advent of psychotropic drugs, there was effective treatment
at last, but only if continued. What's more not all drugs worked well
on everyone with a particular mental disorder and close monitoring
by a physician and people to assure the patient was taking the drugs.
Many of the drugs had unpleasant, and sometimes disabling side
effects as well.

States were happy to get rid of these costly mental hospitals and
switch the treatment to the community. But did not put into place
systems to keep track of the released patients, provide them with
the medical and social support necessary.

So it is silly to blame the current situation on the ACLU. There were
many cases where relatives were only to happy to have a troublesome
family member put away with no hope of improvement or eventual
release. Often the released patients were sent to live with their
families who were unequipped to be medical monitors. As a result
many ended up on the street, families having reached their breaking
point.

It is possible to reduce the mentally ill among the homeless
population but not without some cost to the community. A major
help would be provding supervised housing arrangements with
the caveat that patient given housing work with medical and
social work supervision. There are some arrangements like this
in some communities, but not nearly enough.

We can't say that comprehensive community mental health
programs don't work because they have never been applied in
any widespread or consistent manner.




.

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