Re: Is Islam compatible with a republic?


"1man4all" <forahmad@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:1175223063.216585.66810@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Mar 29, 2:09 pm, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

He represents one part of the radical islamic movement, not all of the
radical islamic moverment. And it really does not matter, how they justify
their acts, the simple fact is that is just an excuse for why it is okay for
them to do what they plan to do. Just about every crook you catch, has some
justification why it was okay to commit the acts they committed...it is how
we humans rationalize our acts.....

There is a difference between reasons and justifications. Reasons you
need to know, justifications you may reject.

What is the "Islamic movement", may I ask? Can you provide any
credible evidence that Osama bin Ladin wants to become the "Khalifa,"
FORCE "infidels" to Islam, take over the West, or kill all infidels?
The way I see it, time and time again, he distinguished between the
'good' Westerners, such as the Swedes, who have never hurt Muslims and
Americans/Brits/Australians [essentially English-speaking, Anglo-Saxon
nations] that have been doing their utmost to keep their global
hegemony by playing a game of divide and rule, unabashedly supporting
Israeli brutalities, and supporting foolish Arab tyrants for their own
geopolitical reasons.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=107&type=issue

http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/fight_islam.htm

http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/1309.pdf


> Let's analyze at what Khalid Sheik Mohammed did say, or at least what
> has been reported:

> Quote 1: "For sure, I'm American (sic) enemies"

> Analysis: In broken English, he's saying that he is an enemy of the
> United States. However, it is clear that he does not consider himself
> to be an enemy of ordinary Americans who do not support hawkish
> policies. Like Bin Ladin, he probably does hold Americans responsible
> for electing leaders who, in his mind, are deeply hurting Muslims.

How do you really know that, from what he said?

I trust the Washington Post to report the key points of the testimony
that the reporter heard at the Gitmo tribunal.

> Quote 2: "Because war, for sure, there will be victims," he said.
> "When I said I'm not happy that 3,000 been killed in America. I feel
> sorry even. I don't like to kill children and the kids."

> Analysis: It is obvious from this statement that even in his sick
> mind, killing innocent people is wrong. So his war is not against
> "infidels" [as Jewish lobbies continue to insist by quoting a handful
> of loony mullahs who have never attacked the US] but against US
> policies.

Wow, that is some consolation. That is like saying that Truman thought that
killing innocent people was wrong, while he gave the authorization to drop
two nuclear bombs on two cities in Japan....some consolation, especially for
those who lived in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...I am sure they thought, hey the
guy "really" did not want to kill us....

Once again, you are confusing reasons with justifications. Nobody but
the terrorists or their supporters are claiming that killing innocent
people was justified, because American people vote for their
government, and if that government is killing/hurting Arabs/Muslims,
then Americans are guilty. What we are trying to establish here is the
motivation, not the excuse.

> Quote 3: [Washington Post paraphrasing]: Mohammed contended that he
> and al-Qaida are not terrorists, but are in engaged in a long struggle
> against U.S. oppression in the Middle East. He apologizes for killing
> children in the Sept. 11 attacks.

> Analysis: Obviously, he's not saying that he was trying to eliminate
> "infidels" or take over the West as Senator Lieberman, Senator McCain
> and other Republicans keep claiming. He sees what he's doing as a
> struggle against an oppressive power that is undermining the political
> independence of Arabs and Muslims.

He can apolgize all he wants. The simple fact is that when you ram a
commerical airliners into a building, there is a good chance there may be
children inside and you certainly don't know beforehand that there will be
no children inside...there just may have been a group of school children
visiting the place, by some teacher or school. So, actions speak louder
than words....

Okay, but I am not saying that what they did was heroic. It was
dastardly. It was evil. The issue is motive, not the justification.

> Quote 4 {Washington Post partly paraphrasing]: "So when we made any
> war against America, we are jackals fighting in the nights," he said,
> adding later that had Washington been arrested by the British, he,
> too, would have been considered an enemy combatant. "As consider
> George Washington as hero, Muslims many of them are considering Osama
> bin Laden. He is doing same thing. He is just fighting. He needs his
> independence."

> Analysis: He makes it clear that he has been fighting for the
> political independence of Muslims which has not come about because of
> the American dominance of the Middle East. It is the old complaint
> against a Western imperialistic power that it has such a strong hold
> on Third World countries--politically and economically--that people in
> those countries do not feel free. Mohammed does not see the US as
> fighting for 'his' freedom but as fighting for it's own freedom to
> subjugate the Middle East to its own will.

He "maybe" fighting for the political independence of Muslims, but that does
not mean that EVERYONE in the movement is fighting for the political
independence of Muslims. Besides, how many bodies are they willing to go
over, in order to achieve their goal?

What's the prime motive? That's what we are trying to establish.
Obviously, when people have a strong grievance, other/minor issues
come to light, but usually that's not what they are fighting for.

> Quote 5: Mohammed said he wants to make a "great awakening" to force
> the United States to stop foreign policy "in our land."

> Analysis: Simply put, he wants to change to 'policy' of the US. He had
> no intention of forcibly converting American infidels to Islam.

No, radical islam just wants you to be dead. Besides that is a phony
argument. These guys will kill ANYONE who does not believe in their form of
Islam. They even kill their fellow muslims....

What you are suggesting is an assertion. I have even lived and worked
in the Middle East. So if we are going by opinions, whose opinion
should count?

> So from all, it is clear that al-Qaida was/is simply fighting against
> to change US policies in the Middle East i.e., force US troops out of
> the Middle East and get a better deal for the Palestinians.

You are assuming that "if" they can achieve their goals, that they will
simply fold their tents and go away.....- Hide quoted text -

Absolutely.





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