Re: Poll: Iraqis say life better than under Saddam

On 18 Mar 2007 14:23:21 -0700, "Steven Douglas"
<dsteven@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 18, 1:09 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1174250280.141070.107960@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



On Mar 18, 12:25 pm, "dechucka" <dechu...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Steven Douglas" <dste...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On Mar 18, 11:17 am, Fred Bloggs <mister_exa...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In article <1174243338.406234.278...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
dste...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx says...

On Mar 18, 10:31 am, "Jerry Okamura" <okamuraj...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
<jbmccr...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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I guess they couldn't interview any of the 650,000 innocent
civilians
who have been killed in 3 years due to the illegal invasion
which
was
based on deliberately falsified intelligence on WMDs.

How did you arrive at that number? Care to provide a link? How
many
died
while Saddam was in power? How many would have died had Saddam
still
been
in power. How many would have died, had Saddam's sons picked up
where
Saddam left off? How many were thrown in prison for not good
reason
and
were tortured while Saddam was in power? How many are now being
tortorued
and throsn in prison since Saddam is not in power?

Not to mention children not being tortured while their parents were
forced to watch. Or wives, of men Saddam perceived to be a threat,
being gang raped while their husbands were forced to watch. Or all
the
children and elderly who were dying every month because of the
corrupt
UN Oil for Food program, which enriched Saddam at the expense of the
Iraqi people. Does anyone remember the handwringing over 5000
children
per month dying in Iraq due to the UN sanctions? Do leftists even
care
about such things? Or is everything a political calculation for
them?

All wonderful emotive stuff, but the facts are that iraqis are being
killed in far greater numbers today and look likely to continue to be
killed into the future in far greater numbers than ever occurred under
Saddam.

It's not just the numbers of people murdered and tortured by Saddam
and his sons, it's also the numbers of people who were dying due to
Saddam skimming the cream from the corrupt UN Oil for Food program,
leaving the Iraqi people without the needed food and medicine that was
intended for them, but resulted instead in the enrichment of Saddam
himself.

What, precisely, do you think that the invasion and subsequent botched
occupation of Iraq have achieved other than deposing Saddam?

I'm not happy with many aspects of the occupation. But deposing Saddam
was the original goal.

no it wasn't according to the 3Bs at the time

Deposing Saddam was the original goal (at the time the use of military
force began), because Saddam steadfastly refused to cooperate with the
UN inspectors.

Oh so you are changing your mind

No. I already explained it once, but I'll repeat it for the more dense
among you (namely you) -- deposing Saddam was the goal when he refused
to cooperate with the inspectors (as I have since documented in
another post in this thread).


Lie.
Thumper
You will find that " regime" change was not the given reason when it started
it was WMD, connections with AQ etc etc all shown to be fabricated. The
regime change and democratisation of Iraq only came about after no WMD were
found and all the other original reasons were shown to be lies. The US
couldn't have used democratisation as a reason early on as Saddam was there
buddy and ally in the ME.

Bush gave a speech to the United Nations General Assembly in September
2002. Here is a list of reasons given at that time:

For Immediate Release Office of the Press Secretary
September 12, 2002

A Decade of Deception and Defiance serves as a background paper for
President George W. Bush's September 12th speech to the United Nations
General Assembly. The Administration will periodically provide
information on these and other aspects of the threat posed to the
international community by Saddam Hussein.

Table of Contents

Saddam Hussein's Defiance of United Nations Resolutions
Saddam Hussein's Development of Weapons of Mass Destruction
Saddam Hussein's Repression of the Iraqi People
Saddam Hussein's Support for International Terrorism
Saddam Hussein's Refusal to Account for Gulf War Prisoners
Saddam Hussein's Refusal to Return Stolen Property
Saddam Hussein's Efforts to Circumvent Economic Sanctions

A Decade of Deception and Defiance
http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/13456.htm

.

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