Re: Bin Laden


rg wrote:
"js" <jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157919201.254311.45560@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

rg wrote:
"js" <jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157902834.788098.302540@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

rg wrote:
"js" <jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157844118.742579.313280@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

rg wrote:
"js" <jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157807566.888233.32720@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

rg wrote:
"js" <jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1157738908.117291.21240@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Rita wrote:
On 8 Sep 2006 10:22:40 -0700, "js"
<jonathansmith99@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


Rita wrote:
On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:41:26 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
<Waynelund@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:


"Rita" <nitany_98@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:o443g29iqg17j0ka7g751j14rnr9vtqjq1@xxxxxxxxxx
Does anyone share my view that it is a travesty that
Bin
Laden
is
still free?

Imagine if following WWII Hitler had been on the loose?
Would
the
U.S. and other nations have simply given up and said,
"oh
well?"

Does anyone other than me think Pakistan is giving him
safe
haven?

Bin Laden's capture or death would not have totally
destroyed
Al
Queda. But no longer could the members gloat and use
his
success
as a recruitment tool.

These thoughts are with me approaching the 5th
anniversary
of
9/11.

Since we, as a country, have our hands tied in that we
must
read
them
their
Miranda rights before even arresting them, and our CIA
has
been
told
"no
more wet operations", it's no surprise that we can't do a
bloody
thing
against the terrorists any more. Osama could be standing
ten
feet
tall, just
a yard inside Pakistan border and our people are
powerless
to
do a
thing.

We have nobody but ourselves and all the bleeding heart
liberals
to
thank
for this mess.

Wayne

You are rewriting history. Liberals were not in charge of
decisions
made in Afghanistan to leave his capture to unreliable
Afghanis
and
allow him to get away. Unless you can show me they were,
you
are
being extremely silly.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/19/taliban.documents/

All that story says is that the U.S. attempted to get
cooperation in turning over Bin Laden. And that this attempt
was ultimately unsuccessful. Bin Laden was cornered in
Afghanistan
during the war but escaped. The U.S. had not had its troops
go
after him but relied on Afghani tribal forces.

And your point is?

You said "Does anyone share my view that it is a travesty that
Bin
Laden is
still free? "

Then added, "Liberals were not in charge of decisions made in
Afghanistan to leave his capture to unreliable Afghanis and
allow
him
to get away."

And I posted an article retelling the 1998 interactions that
explains
how the Clinton White house did exactly what you say they
didn't
do.

"Eastham responded by telling Ahmed the Taliban had to
recognize
for
itself "that the role of political leadership is to shape
public
opinion, not to decline to act because they think opinion is
otherwise."

Easthman left it to the Afghani's to get rid of Bin Laden.
They
didn't. And we had 9/11 soon after.

Now, who is rewriting history?

Thanks for playing, Rita.

js


js, you and Rita are talking about two different time periods.

Read Rita's original post - then read her second post and her
response
to me.

I pointed out that in 1998 the US had the opportunity to capture
ABL
and failed. Rita agreed.

I really don't care who the Commander in Chief was. I didn't
politicize this. Personally, I think the whoile Middle East is a
mess
and there is plenty of blame to go around - including the French,
the
Brits, the Germans, the UN, the Palestinians, the Lebanese, the
Iranians, Clinton, Bush, Cheney, Gore.....

The question is, what is YOUR solution? What would YOU do.

This is the perpetual problem in the US today and in this ng -
the
guy
in charge actually has to do something - everyone else is a
Monday
morning quarterback. And its not just Iraq, its immigration, the
economy, the environment....

js


While I am far from an expert in matters of foreign policy, I do
believe
the
appropriate response to 9-11 was to identify the criminals that
perpetrated
the crime and then do all that was possible to arrest them or kill
them.
Identifying them was fairly easy to do and since the actual
perpetrators
were dead, the only ones to go after were OBL and his gang. I
would
like
to
insert here that the Taliban was not responsible for 9-11. That
seems
to
also get thrown into the mix. While the Taliban is not high on my
list
of
people I want to be friends with, they did NOT have anything to do
with
9-11.

The Bush team apparently had plans for dealing with SH and Iraq
long
before
9-11 and those plans and the emotion attached to SH (don't forget
that
SH
tried to assassinate daddy Bush in Kuwait a few years back) as well
as
the
oil card craftily got mixed into the plan to deal with the 9-11
gang.

We, as private citizens, do not have access to the intel that would
need
to
be known to make wise decisions of what to do. We had to take Bush
for
his
word. And his word turned out to be false.

It is interesting to listen to a Karen Kwatalski (sp?) who was an
Air
Force
intelligence officer in the Pentagon during the runup to the Iraq
invasion.
She says that all the intel coming into the Pentagon ran counter to
what
Bush was telling the public. She stated that they would pass the
intel
to
the White House, and then listen in awe at what Bush would say in
his
speeches.

So, somebody was lying, and doing so for reasons unknown to me.

Also, the office at the Pentagon that guards the access to the TOP
SECRET
room said that prior to the Iraq invasion that Cheney made
something
like
close to 50 visits to the intel room. He was asked if that was
unusual
and
he stated that it was more than unusual, it was unique. That it had
never
happened in the history of the Pentagon for a Vice-Pres. to visit
the
intel
room more than once or twice.

Cheney was hand picking and coaching the intel that was going to be
used.

There is so much dirt on this affair that it is going to take a
long
time
to
get to the bottom of all of it. In the meantime, the reason you
haven't
seen any kind of impeachment proceedings is for one reason
only.....Republicans are in majority in Congress.

While Clinton may have made mistakes, the Republicans did extra
duty
to
make
sure the nation's attention, and Clinton's, was not diverted from
the
impeachment proceedings they were building against him.

But in an national political atmosphere minus a 9-11 attack, there
were
different circumstances during the Clinton admin. for dealing with
OBL.

Problem now is we as a country are in a pickle. We should not have
invaded
Iraq but we cannot leave now without a bloodbath occuring and the
most
radical element you can imagine taking control of that country and
it's
oil.
They could fund a lot of terrorists plots with that kind of dough.

The question has been asked; Was SH the way he was because of Iraq,
or
was
Iraq the way it was because of SH?

It's a good question. And it is not inconceivable that SH could
someday
be
put back in charge in order to bring Iraq under some control other
than
Iranian. And that is assuming they don't convict and kill him.

I look for Bush and the Repubs to attempt to divert attention from
Iraq
by
doing some military strike on Iran, and start a larger war so that
they
can
slowly evolve this thing past the initial reasons they gave for
invading
Iraq.

Bush and team's credibility ought to be zero with any thinking
individual
but I find that political loyalty is much like religion. It is
more a
matter of the heart than of the head.

rg

And you still propose no solution. All you can do is
blame...blame...and blame.

Like I said - plenty of blame. Now - what is the road going
forward?
If the Dems cannot provide the American public with a strategy, will
they be successful in mid-terms and in 2008?

js


Does it really matter to you or anyone else what my solution would be?
Probably no. Then why ask me to provide one?

We blame because we trusted and Bush et al. misused our trust and is
causing
great harm to this country.

What would you do instead of blame? Would you offer accolades?

Solutions. Offer options. What would you do?

I don't think it really matters much who gains control of the
government
next. We are in a mess and there will be no easy way out....at least
not
one that we will be able to save face with.

But that still leaves you with a problem, doesn't it. You apparently
are pissed at the Republicans for getting us to this point - but you
can't offer a path forward. What goods are you?


Looks like Afghanistan is going down the tubes also.

First the British, then the Russians and now the US. Doesn't anyone
read
history books anymore?

The problem with conservatives is they are only conservative in name.
Once
they get elected, they act just like all the others that have gone
before
them.

It is time for our country to try something different. Perhaps a
party
that
will more closely practice the tenets of the Constitution and limit
government.

And how exactly does that help?

Abstract pontification.

Done.

js


When you find yourself in a deep hole, the first action is to stop
digging.

My solution would be to consult people that have expertise in
middle-eastern
affairs as well as others whom I trust that have expertise in fields that
would be helpful in this situation and then formulate a plan of action.


Now, what would you do?

"...and then formulate a plan...?

Thats not a plan. But it is consistent with what the democratic
leadership has been saying.

We need a plan....we need to stop doing what we are doing....whatever
the Repubs do is wrong....we need to.....

Nada - no plan. Just like you. No plan. You bitch and moan and pont
fingers but can't come up with anything concrete.

Stop digging? What is that supposed to mean? Cut and run? That's not
a plan. Even when you say it in English it looks and feels far to
French.

Also done.

Rg, you were done a long time ago.

js
js, when I returned to this group to participate, I made a pact with myself.
The minute the name-calling started, and the superiority complex began, then
I would no longer respond to that individual.

You have now made that list.

rg

I never called you a name. I pointed out that in terms of proposing
sxolutions, you were done a long time ago. And you were - from the
very first post when you had to play peacemaker between Rita and me.
How condescending and myopic you were to think that we needed your
superior insight.

But just for grins - and since you aren't going to respond....

I think that your ideas and what you post are nothing but hot air. You
cannot provide anything constructive. The best effort yoiuy made was
an admission you had no plan, all you have is 20/20 hindsight and a
stick up your *** about Bush.

You have nothing of value to offer me. Therefore, I look forward to
NOT having you muddle up the NG when I post.

Thank you for taking your pail and shovel and going home.

Good enogh? Feel better.

done.

js

.

Loading