Re: before katrina

On Mon, 4 Sep 2006, Islander wrote:

Alvin E. Toda wrote:

On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Islander wrote:

California Poppy wrote:

Jerry Okamura wrote:

Will try to catch the program, but I have argued for a long time the "solution" is quite simple. Somehow convince people to at least get a high school education, and I am willing to bet that alone will go a long way to improving the income earning potential of a whole lot of people. I think the statistics are pretty clear on that point. The lowest wage earners in this country are those who have not completed high school.



Not only a high school diploma, but everyone needs continuing education throughout their lives. Even those of us who are seniors need to keep learning: how much money for retirement, where to live in retirement, regular driving lessons, health information, job information as well ad education for pleasure. An example, I am now participating in an online group that is reading some of Edgar Allen Poe's stories together. It makes me think, learn and exercise the aging brain.. It tells us of a world we never knew.


I certainly agree with the value of education, not just HS, but continuing education throughout life. That may not solve the problem of poverty by itself, but it would be a good step in the right direction. Perhaps you could tell me how to bring about the cultural change that would convince today's youth that education is a good idea. By the time I saw students at the graduate level, the field had already been narrowed to those few who were motivated. To be honest, I found the Asian students to be much more motivated than the American students, with a few notable exceptions. I think that the problem needs to be solved much earlier and have seen no evidence that our programs are improving anything. Jerry has mentioned before, I think, that part of the problem is with the parents. I agree, but that still involves implementing some sort of cultural change. How do we do that?


I occasionally substitute in the local public high schools. It's not true that Asian students are "much more" motivated. They are about as unmotivated as all the other local Americans in the school. It's a problem with the system which passes students from grade to grade even if they are not learning.

I think that NCLB is a good law because it clearly identifies those who are having trouble, or exceptional. Educators are concerned with the accuracy of measuring the students which pass-- high standards, low standards, behavioral, etc. But they really should focus on those that are failing and why. And they should also focus on why teachers are leaving the profession here. Teachers really need to have social workers working with them on the many troublesome students they encounter nowadays. This week I had one sp ed class in which only one ADHD student showed up. The EA and I outnumbered the class. And the ADHD student could probably be mainstreamed if his parents would consent to medicate him. He's all over the place and can't concentrate.

Also, this is an era of rapid change and even if learning problems are solved early, we still need to recognize that the continuing education programs do not meet the needs for our workers today. For example, today community college programs are just about as
expensive as a four year institution. For a short period until the last University president took action the CC tuition was even more expensive than the four year university. About 35 years ago, the tuition was about $12-- ie just an administrative fee-- and the system expanded at a rapid rate. Today however with higher tuitions some CCs here have even lost enrollment this past year.

The night school program is also a joke. The principals have no incentive to increase their enrollment to different market segments. Funding is always a problem, and they will not experiment with courses. Basically they check with the existing attendees and do not go out into the community to check on needs there. I had checked with a local night school to offer some kind of math review for students at a nearby CC because the CC has so many failing the math placement test, and unlike the CC remedial course, the night school course would be almost free. The principal didn't want just to advertise the class and see how many would sign up. Instead he surveyed some classes-- science and math for an apprentice requirement, etc for non-college students-- to see whether some would attend. He was more interested if I would teach a GED class at the prison nearby.

Yes, I admit that my experience is limited in that I worked with only those students who survived several levels of qualification including my own interviews before I accepted them. I suspect that I saw a lot of very good Asian students because they were being drawn from a larger pool.

As to the rest of our educational system, I cannot speak with any authority. A very good friend of my with a PhD in mathematics and a distinguished career in industry wanted to "give back" by teaching math in the local high school. He had good experience teaching classes in his company, but the local school system would not permit him to teach in the public school because he had no formal education in education. He satisfied his personal interests by offering tutoring services to needy students, but the local school system lost a great opportunity.

I have not heard anything good about NCLB. Personally, I do not favor a system that is aimed only at the lowest common denominator. Your mention of identification of exceptional students is encouraging IF something is done to allow these students to benefit. I'm biased by an experience that I had with an algebra teacher when my daughter was in HS. Her grades were always high and when she started getting low grades in algebra I was concerned. Turned out that he was focusing on the poorest students in the belief that better students would find a way to get by. My daughter was just bored. We agreed to put her on independent study and her grades improved. I don't feel that we can compete in today's world without programs that benefit our best and brightest.

Continuing education is a tough problem. I worked on a proposal while at Stanford to expand their video education program into a web-based knowledge library. The basic idea was to restructure college education into a phased transition into the working world with an emphasis on life-long learning. Courses would be broken down into small, individually accessible modules that could be easily accessed on-line. In this manner, the very best course material could be retrieved when needed by anyone with a high bandwidth internet connection. The proposal was not funded and the participants lost interest. Too bad!

I think that bored and gifted students can cause a lot of trouble as well (more if you know what I mean). But the troublesome ones are generally the worst students and dumb down the quality of instruction. In the case of your friend, I think that he might have met with more success in a private school where his lack of professional credentials would not be a handicap. Credentials like this are no stanger even to science and technology. IIRC for many jobs, a Masters or PhD is required for an entry level position. You shouldn't be surprised that it happens in teaching too.
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