Re: before katrina

On Sat, 2 Sep 2006 04:56:27 -1000, "Alvin E. Toda" <aet@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSI.4.61.0609010624230.27474@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Jerry Okamura wrote:

"Alvin E. Toda" <aet@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSI.4.61.0608310654420.12929@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No. They can enforce the order [to evacuate] at a
local level. The police should have come in
afterwards and picked up the deadheads.

Well, yes, they "can" enforce the order, but the
fact is they do not enforce the order. So, what
significance is it to say that they "can" enforce
the order at the local level? Besides, I thought
you just said in another part of this thread that
was a federal responsibility....care to explain
what I see as an inconsistency in the two
statements?

The Feds need to pick up the stragglers. The police
needs to take out the refuseniks. Isn't that clear?

If the "police" takes out the refuseniks, are there
going to be any "stragglers"? And "if" there are any
stragglers, which federal agency should pick up the
"stragglers"?

Jerry, it's up to the police to tell the difference.
Obviously, you can't.

No government was prepared to remove everyone
from the city. These folks discuss that:
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/117/5/S2/S396
The scene at the Superdome was planned as I read
the above.

And that is the basic problem, i.e. no one is
prepared to even have plans to remove everyone from
the city. The Superdome is not my idea of
evacuating a city.

The feds took too long to respond to evacuate the
dome.

The "fed"? Who put them there in the first place.

Bad planning, but the best under the circumstances. The
feds didn't respond here. That's the problem.

The real problem is that when the Mayor gives the
mandatory order that late, then it is difficult
for other agencies to act. But if they are
prepared, then the evacuation can still happen.
Many left prior to the order. The stragglers could
still have been moved if the feds were prepared.

Okay, then "if" the Mayor gave the mandatory
evacuation order too late, then it was his fault and
not the fault of the federal government that people
had "difficulty" getting out of Dodge and "other"
agencies to act, which includes the federal goverment
agencies? Again, which federal agency do you propose
"should have" forced these people out of New Orleans?

Not necessarily. People still did evacuate without the
order. Again the feds move the stragglers, the cops
remove the refuseniks.

Come on, you cannot be serious. We have all seen
where state government has issue so-called
"mandatory evacuation orders" where some choose to
ignore those orders. But I would agre with the
statement that "if" they give a mandatory order to
late, then obviously not everyone is going to be
able to get out of Dodge. You keep blaming the
feds, what about all those school buses we all saw
on TV, up to the hub caps in water, still sitting
in the parking areas? Are you saying that was a
federal responsibility?

No the mayor gave the mandatory order. Those who
could walk to the dome did so. Those that could not,
soon found themselves in the next couple days dead
or isolated on their roofs. The feds were the only
ones who could bring in busses to move the people in
the dome-- and Brownie took his own sweet time in
doing so.

Staying the the city is not evacuating....why do you
have such a difficult time understanding that basic
concept.

No. Walking to the Dome is in the plan for those who
can walk but can't drive. What's so difficult about
that concept?

And there were those who couldn't walk to the Dome, elderly,
infirm, people with very young children who later were rescued
(or not) from their homes where they had taken to the top
floor or to the roof. Do you remember the searches of homes
where those with dead bodies were marked with the number
of dead and those with none were marked "clear"?

The fact is that most middle class people with the transportation
and the financial means got out. Some had neither of these.

It was a disaster of major scale and local resources failed. I don't
see that as being unusual given the circumstances. Outside help
took too long to arrive -- that is a fact and disputing it is just
plain silly. I think many of us put ourselves in the place of those
who were stranded, and we thought "there but for the grace of
God go I."

Even Bush says the government reponse failed the people. What
more does Jerry want?
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: before katrina
    ... The police should have come in afterwards and picked up the ... Well, yes, they "can" enforce the order, but the fact is they do ... The feds took too long to respond to evacuate the dome. ... then "if" the Mayor gave the mandatory evacuation order too ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: before katrina
    ... police should have come in afterwards and picked up the deadheads. ... Well, yes, they "can" enforce the order, but the fact is they do not ... The feds took too long to respond to evacuate the dome. ... then "if" the Mayor gave the mandatory evacuation order too ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: before katrina
    ... police should have come in afterwards and picked up the deadheads. ... Well, yes, they "can" enforce the order, but the fact is they do not ... The feds took too long to respond to evacuate the dome. ... Okay, then "if" the Mayor gave the mandatory evacuation order too late, ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: before katrina
    ... The police should have come in ... The Feds need to pick up the stragglers. ... then the evacuation can still happen. ... say, that is "if" they issue a mandatory evacuation order, that it is ...
    (soc.retirement)
  • Re: before katrina
    ... The police should have come in afterwards and picked up the deadheads. ... The Feds need to pick up the stragglers. ... The feds took too long to respond to evacuate the dome. ... then the evacuation can still happen. ...
    (soc.retirement)