Re: Witch hunt

"George Z. Bush" <georgezbush@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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Earl wrote:
"George Z. Bush" <georgezbush@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
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Earl wrote:
Fred Ghadry <falko282@xxxxxxxx> wrote in
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During the early years of the Cold War, the
anticommunist witch hunt that we now call McCarthyism
swept through American society. McCarthyism was much
more than the career of the blustering senator from
Wisconsin who gave it a name. It was the most widespread
and longest-lasting episode of political repression in
American history.

Dozens of men and women went to prison, thousands lost
their jobs, and untold numbers of others saw what
happened to those people and refrained from expressing
controversial or unpopular ideas. McCarthyism remains
all too relevant today; if nothing else, it reminds us
that we cannot take our basic freedoms for granted.

What happened during the Cold War red scare of the late
1940s and 1950s? How could such a politically repressive
movement as the red scare arise in a modern democratic
society such as the post-World War II United States?
Which aspects of domestic and international politics of
the late 1940s and 1950s contributed to the rise of the
anti-communist furor? What were the costs of
McCarthyism? And, most important, how did it affect
American culture, politics, and the rest of American
society?

Today, when there is so much discussion about all the
ills of the world, it mightn't hurt to remember that a
repressive regime ruled in this country not too many
years ago.


But lest one get the wrong idea,

There were witches out there then.

It is acknowledged that the FDR administration was
riddled with Communist spies, and agents.

Don't take our word for it, look at the files of the KGB.
These files confirm just about every one of the spy
allegations, as well as a bunch we never knew about.

The problem was that the Leftists who ran the Democrats,
believed in the goodness of world communism and were
perfectly willing to help out the Soviet Union any way
the could. And FDR was telling everyone that Uncle Joe
was our friend and ally, so of course we needed to tell
him how to build atom bombs.

Complete and total bull***. We didn't even know that
those things would work until AFTER FDR was dead. In any
case, nobody told Stalin anything about them other than
his spies in our country, who stole all of the "how to"
information about them after the war had ended and the
Russians saw how valuable they would be for them to have.
BTW, the only spies who had any direct part in government
activities were a couple of Brits.

You need to get your facts straight if you want to
constuct fairy tales that people will believe.


We have a similar situation today with people with dual
citizenship.....

Are you suggesting that Americans holding dual citizenship
are disloyal to this country? If so, what are you basing
that conclusion on other than your own ding-a-ling ideas?
Provide a cite or a link to a responsible source if you
want believability.

........You are an American; or you are an Israeli,
Mexican, Chinese or whatever -- but not both.

Cite? You obviously don't know it, but there are many
Americans who hold dual citizenship and who fill
responsible positions in our government and whose
performance are totally free of criticism or questions
about their loyalty.

George Z




You sir are the individual with the major gap in your
knowledge.

There were several spy rings AT Los Alamos, throughout the
development of the bomb.

The Rosenbergs, Greenglass and Klaus Fuchs are the only
names that come to mind regarding Los Alomos. You're
talking spy rings, so name some more....surely four people
don't make up "several spy rings".


Try Hall and Sax.
You really should look into the Venona intercepts.
When they were declassified in 1980 they exposed the hidden
secret of the massive infiltration.

The Julius (rosenburg) network also had Barr and Sarant who
worked at FtMonmouth (that nest of espionage that the Democrats
closed) who stole full plans for our radar systems.



At Potsdam, Stalin knew more about the bomb than Truman.

I seriously doubt it. One of the first things Truman was
briefed on after FDR's death were the details of the
Manhattan project. Minutes of the Potsdam Conference only
revealed that Truman told Stalin that we had a new weapon we
were going to use on Japan, and Stalin apparently asked no
questions about it. What do you base your statement on?


Books I have read on the development of the Soviet bomb. The
irony in the Soviet bomb is that Stalin ordered Beria to build
one just like the plans for the US one even though the Russians
had developed a better design that was not tested until later.

(Hall was on the team developing the implosion system at LA and
was sending everything that Los Alamos produced to Russia. A far
bigger spy that the Rosenburgs)


And the spies were not just stealing military secrets. They
were at State, guiding diplomatic negotiations (and
revealing our positions during the dealmaking.)

The only ones who's names come to mind were Whitaker
Chambers and Alger Hiss. Were there any others? If so, who
were they and why weren't they prosecuted?

Not being that interested, I do not recall their names, but
there were a large number of high ranking politicos.F

But note that the KGB files that are public list 221 spy rings
in the Rooseveldt admin in 41, with about the same number for
the GRU.

Naturally as the war started the importance of espionage
increased.



.....And just about every other department had Soviet
agents. Enough so that Russia sent out a
warning to tone down the networks, because the consequences
when caught would work against the Communists.

Just a little bit of research would show you the error of
your blindness.

How about sharing some of that research with us by providing
some names of Soviet agents working in U. S. government
departments other than State? I don't remember reading or
hearing anything about that either at that time or at any
time since. Who were those people? Were they prosecuted
and, if not, why not? Names and work places, please.

George Z
As for an individual being free of any criticism of his
loyalty, Benedict Arnold held that reputation until Andre
was caught.




From NSA on Venona
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00039.cfm
*****


The 1944 and 1945 messages disclose mainly U.S. individuals
involved in a massive Soviet espionage effort ñ over one hundred
Americans, most of them Communists, are mentioned in the
translations of this release. Some of the organizations
infiltrated by these individuals included the following:

U.S. Agency Some of the Relevant VENONA Messages
Department of the Treasury NY No. II 19-1121, 4 to 5 August
1944; 1634, 20 November 1944
Office of Strategic Services (OSS) NY No. 954, 20 September 1944
War Department NY No. 1721-28, 8 December 1944
Department of State Wash. No. 1822, 30 March 1945
Department of Justice NY No. 27, 8 January 1945

The translations disclose agents with access to the White House,
Congress, and political parties, as well as agents in the media
and in high-tech defense industries. New York message nos. 1635,
21 Nov 44 and 12-16, 4 Jan 45 reveal assets and infighting
relating to ROBERT?s (Greg Silvermaster) large KGB net in
government departments and agencies in Washington.



******

So here we have State, Treasury, Army, Justice and OSS
penetrations.

Note the Venona intercepts were only for the years 43-45. A spy
told the Soviets in 45 that their one time pad was compromised.
The decryptions continued for over 30 years. but only about 15%
of the 44 work and about 1% of the other 2 years of the
intercepted wire trafic was ever decoded and translated.
.

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